General writing discussion.

JHM

^ Because suffering makes you stronger. You are subconsciously very Nietzschean.

So, each morning before I go to bed (jeez...), I have been writing something for my story. This is progress, even when what I'm writing is ultimately tangential to the main plot(s).

Also, I wrote a torture scene and made myself a bit uncomfortable.

Saturn

So, I have a script I've begun to outline. Premise:

A murder at a high school is further complicated by a mysterious virus that causes students to switch bodies with whoever is closest to them whenever they sneeze.

It's supposed to be a Dark Comedy type of thing. I like the concept a lot, but I'm starting to wonder if the murder aspect is too much. Like, is the conceit of ALL the students in the school constantly switching bodies enough to go on? Does the mystery keep it grounded, or just bloated.

Schitzo

Hmm... I see some potential.

 

Sorry if i don't have anymore to say at the moment, but for now, you do have my intrigue.

Saturn

I'm glad I have that

MillerCross

How is the murder connected to the body switching?

Saturn

I was thinking that the murderer was the one who created the man-made virus that causes the body switching. They would have planned to use it for nefarious and personal schemes that I haven't yet decided on. But they never planned for it to get out. The victim discovered the virus and the murderer's creation of it because they were accidentally exposed to it. The murderer had to kill them to keep their involvement a secret.

That's what I've thought of to start anyway. Very basic.

Formaldehyde

Maybe the murderer uses the virus to aid him in his, uh, murders? Like, maybe he marries people, takes out life insurance policies on them, switches bodies with someone else, kills the spouse, and switches back, (And all variations of this scheme) thereby framing the switchee?
 
And maybe the plot could be about deducing the true identity of the killer among an entire high school of body-switchers?
 
I dunno, just rambling over here. Didn't get much sleep, you see.

Nova

I think Formaldehyde's idea could be cool. It ties it into the murder plot, makes both of them relevant to both the other idea and the overall narrative, and has a lot of potential (because, even if the killer is caught, you can't be sure that he will remain the killer.)

Saturn

So, what you're saying is, is this guy is ALREADY a murderer, and uses the body switching to make it more efficient? That is better.

And yeah, I had similar ideas to making the murder harder to investigate. Thanks.

MillerCross

You know what really sucks? Writing an outline.

You know what really really sucks? Writing an outline for a time travel story and constantly try to avoid plot holes like a motherfucker.

Alkthash

See now I'm imagining Cable trying to write a book and failing miserably because he doesn't really understand time working in a linear fashion.

Saturn

And the book is just a normal romance.

lrdgck

Hay guyz, I just penned this piece of crap:

The spring was coming. Snow melted away from the fields, and with it, dirty, stale shades of white giving way for green of the grass and leaves. Along with the green came all the myriad colours of the Earth waking up from winterly slumber of the flowers and plants and birds coming back from beyond the sea. The air was pleasantly warm, even by the standards of much later parts of season's, by rays of the rising sun and long-waited winds from the mountains. Days were getting longer - not yet longer than nights, but the equinox was soon to come.
Soon there would come the Wedding of the River.
The River was not the only river passing through the land - perhaps confusingly for an outlander, who, for whatever ungodly reason or business of his own, would find it fit to wander into the realm - but the locals never saw any sense in questioning its name. Of course, there are many rivers, they'd scoff. Some were small and easy to cross. Others quite big, of considerable depth, lifting many pole-pushed ferries full of passengers and wares, rolling slowly through the lowlands to finally spill into the big one. But, the good peasants would point out, none of them as big, as deep, as majestic. In short, they would sum it up thus: of all these rivers, only one is The River.
Now, if the traveller was inclined to insist, desiring to learn beyond his silly customs that he brought from afar, he might have learned that the River has a soul of his own - and indeed, of a man's nature it was. And who knows, perhaps this man, outlandish as he is, would agree, and spill a sip of his liquor, or recite a poem, or whatever honest if crude ways of offerings did he know, joining the locals in paying his respects to the River. Perhaps, even, he would stay for the ceremony.
But alas, few were of sufficient understanding, and so, people of the River were decidedly not eager to speak much of their own customs. More often than not, if one such man pushed, he would discover that they, as meek as these people tend to be, are actually quite eager to push back. What does he know, anyway? Or all of these foreigners. None of them, I say, would know how to placate the River, soothe his moods. Or even which kind of girls he prefers. If they lived here, they'd die in a flood sooner, than they could stick the pegs of a hut's wall into the ground. The River was serious business. Not like these silly sky or fire or thunder, little godlets of theirs, or of whatever else.

Wonder if you think it's readable, and what do you think of the style. Myself feel like I was channelling le Guin, kinda.

Schitzo

It seems to ramble on. Although I do like how descriptive the first third was.

MillerCross

http://millercross.tumblr.com/post/37139367816/first-sequence-is-done-it-sucks-but-i-am-kind-of <-- first sequence for a project of mine. It needs some work and I have a good idea of what I am aiming for. This is here mostly for future reference (Albeit input and feedback are welcome and all that)

Kraken

I like it. Is the whole script going to be non-stop banter? Because if so then it works. If not, then you'll need to trim some of it out.

MillerCross

It's more of a first draft kind of thing. It needs more actions and visualization, definitely.

Saturn

That's pretty much my only critique. More action and visualization.

lrdgck

So I was thinking what are your thoughts on world building. (It goes without saying I mean spec-fic. Fantasy foremost.) On one hand, if you have a ready picture of the world the story is set in, it's easy to keep consistence, as well as to bring a measure of depth that otherwise would be hard to be done believably. On the other, I feel that if you focus on the world foremostly, this works detrimentally to the story (especially as chances are, you are hardly the second Tolkien to pull off a made-up world so well).

TheConductor

So, I wrote three short stories (of a planned 30) that will all come together into a single whole. The general premise is that Lucifer is dead and that's had a bit of an effect on the mythological community.

 

The first story, Paradise Lost deals with what Lucifer was going through as he literally fell from Heaven.

The second, Discovery is about Walker McCulloch, an Aberdonian paranormal detective and his french, animal sidekick, Trevor who discover the death of Lucifer.

And the third one, The Prince of Power and the Irritated Messenger, which deals with the relationship between Hercules and his older brother; Hermes.

Critique on any of them would be very much appreciated!

 

I also wrote a short (very short) story about Santa for Christmas. Though it is somewhat after the fact, here it is:

Santa Claus Comes Home

MadassAlex

I think world building is usually done "wrong", for lack of a better term. 

Strong stories are first and foremost defined by strong execution, whatever the concept may be, but it certainly does help to have a map of where you're going (and not just a literal one). But I think what many people fail to do is to "theme" their worlds. And I don't mean theming in the sense of "This one will be medieval" or "This one will be Victorian steampunk", but theming in the sense that an overall story is themed. 

For instance, say you're writing a piece of speculative fiction and the theme is identity. It would help to have some kind of technology or magic that alters identity, perhaps and probably in unforeseen ways. The nature of the setting's magic might inherently alter the identity of the user in some ways, as its cost. Obviously, this has to be supported by more mundane things as well, but speculative fiction is useful in that it allows us to use abstractions as catalysts for meaningful events. 

I suppose the short version is that you should theme your world along the same lines as you theme your piece of writing, and allow that theme to be a guide both as you write the story proper and create the world as an ongoing process. Sticking to a small set of themes like this will ensure that your story and your world never conflict in a way that seems unusual to a reader, because the two things will make "story sense" together, even if they don't always follow impeccable logic. 

Kraken

I heartily agree; how one approaches the metaphorical writing table is really, really important.

Saturn

In my opinion, when it comes to "theme", there are two types.

1. A concept. Like, as Alex said, "Identity". When the theme is Identity, the characters, the plot, etc, have to showcase this theme.

2. A statement. Taking a stance on a specific thing. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Not saying it has to be a cliche, but that is an example.

Some people think only the second one is theme. I think it can be either.

It is often said that "theme is the opposite of the main character's flaw."

When I start a script, after I have the basic concept, I think of what I want the theme to be. This allows me to think of characters, settings, and plot. The theme can change as I write.

Schitzo

I'll get to them whenever I can. If I don't respond within a day or two, feel free to scream at me

lrdgck

Now, so that I may have an example: what would you say is the theme (in the broader sense) of, say, Song of Ice and Fire? I'm trying to fully understand what you mean.

(BTW I read two of the stories from the previous page's last post. Seems all right. But what exactly does Hermes have to do with the Jedi?)

MadassAlex

I don't think ASOIAF has a singular broad theme that can describe it, but that just means we have some options. 

One theme, for instance, is discrimination. Any era has its own set of discriminatory elements between people, but that means we look to the perspectives of the characters. So in a medieval setting, choosing women, a dwarf, a bastard and so on as perspective characters paint Martin's intentions very clearly. He's used a theme of his setting and used it as a theme for the characters, too, so there's synchronicity between the different conceptual types of content in a novel (such as lore, exposition, dialogue and such).

Nova

its theme is "everything and everyone sucks and you should all just die"

lrdgck

Ah, so this is what you mean. Now, but how does it factor into world building? If I was about to write ASOIAF, once I have a specific theme in mind, should I first develop a world, or let the story take its course and expand the background when I need it?

Nova

Depends on what you want from the story.

MadassAlex

If I was about to write ASOIAF, once I have a specific theme in mind, should I first develop a world, or let the story take its course and expand the background when I need it?

Neither, because they should grow together. That's one of the points of theming; you can have a rough world outline subservient to a set of themes, then have the story bound by the outline while being more deeply informed by said themes.