When people enjoy doing things they are clearly bad at

Alkthash

I dunno why really, but the idea of enjoyment without competence is completely abhorrent to me. Can somebody explain this phenomenon without using tautological things like "fun is fun"?

Forzare

...Really?  Abhorrent?

Also, why is "fun is fun" not valid in this situation?  Can you explain in detail why you like every single thing that you like?

InsanityAddict

Let us use Smash Bros as an example: you can get satisfaction out of one-on-one Fox only Final Destination antics, and at the same time enjoy a free-for-all with Very High items, Pokéballs only. Skill lends itself to competitive tension and personal satisfaction, but lack of skill has more slapstick value.

MillerCross

Because nobody is born good at stuff and they get better at it through practice. 

SotiCoto

... What.... did you come out of your mother's vadge with a full mastery of every single thing you now enjoy?

Everybody is a newb at first, y'know. Folks can get better... well... sometimes. Isn't guaranteed.  Sometimes it is nifty to just be good at not being good.

Stormtroper

There really isn't much to explain. For most people, you don't have to be good at something to like it.

Alkthash

Perhaps not a 20 page paper, but if asked I hope I could come up with an explanation more detailed than "'cause I do".

But really how do people not feel like foolish jackasses when they go up in karaoke and sing poorly, or dance uncoordinatedly or ask others to read their shoddy writting or going out to play a sport they are no good at? What lets them ignore the obvious failings and have fun at it?

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... What.... did you come out of your mother's vadge with a full mastery of every single thing you now enjoy?

Nowhere did I say that I only enjoy things I was instantly good at. I just can't permit myself to enjoy something until I have attained some measure of skill at it. And yes practice sucks, but it allows you to get better and potentially enjoy the thing in question. But enjoyment before that point just seems fairly foolish to me.

Forzare

Because it's not about doing well or winning or showing off. That's not important to some people.

TheConductor

If they're having fun, who cares?

Alkthash

It's not even winning or showing off that matters. Even without an audience I would still want to be proficient at things I enjoy. I'm not going to hold myself to any lower standards when cooking a meal for myself just because I won't have other people tasting it.

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They should care! You shouldn't excuse poor performance just because you enjoy it!

TheConductor

Yeah but they can't be great right away, gotta practice. I suck at Warhammer but I still have fun playing.

SotiCoto

You want to be the very best, like no-one ever was?
To catch them is your real test, to train them is your cause?

Bob

As someone else said (too lazy to look up and see who), practice makes perfect.

Fun is different for everyone. For some, something is only fun if it's sufficiently challenging. For others (like the people in your karaoke example), it's the freedom of doing something they normally wouldn't, the ability to be open with a hobby, or the chance to do something they like in a specific place. In some cases, they may feel like foolish jackasses, but the fun they had outweighs the embarrassment. In others, they had so much they didn't have time to feel foolish.

Alkthash

Bob - In my experience, when people say sufficiently challenging, they mean tough but doable, not going so far out of their competence zone that failure is the only option. As for being open with others about a hobby, why would you want to do that unless you are good at it? Showing it to others when you are bad at it will only invite scorn, laughter and possibly some useful criticism. The other points I can't really refute since those are the source of my confusion about this in the first place.

Conductor - I'm not saying they can only enjoy things they are instantly good at. But enjoying them before they get good is very bizarre to me. The enjoyment can come after the practice has pulled in some real results.

Bob

As for being open with others about a hobby, why would you want to do that unless you are good at it? Showing it to others when you are bad at it will only invite scorn, laughter and possibly some useful criticism.

Some people may be looking for useful criticism. Excluding that, I'm just as confused as you are, but my best guess is that they want to know just how good or bad they are at something.

SotiCoto

In my experience, when people say "challenge", they mean "1% chance of success"... which sorta goes alongside "99% chance of repeating it ad-infinitum".

Alkthash

Then those people are either fictional characters or idiots.

SotiCoto

Definitely idiots..... They're also most of the people I ever come across in the extended gaming community.
They are every prick and prat to ever complain about something being "too easy" (note: there is no such thing as "too easy")....   
Honestly, if I can't get a game right first time, I don't really want to bother. Every time I have to repeat myself is time wasted.

MillerCross

Meh, honestly, I enjoy my guitar playing. Does it suck? Yup, that it does. Do I show it to people? Yes, very much so. Why? Because I enjoy myself doing it, I enjoy seeing them and see their reactions and use them as feedback.

Same goes to my writing. I am fairly bad, and I don't think I ever liked what I've written. But It always felt nice and cathartic to put your thought into written word and I don't see what's so bad about enjoying something because it feels good. I don't think you need to rationalize taste. It is silly to justify stuff to someone just because they don't understand it. If anything, the only way for them to understand it is to pick up the guitar/pen/keyboard and see where does that take them.

SotiCoto

You make a good point there Ju an.
Sometimes I like to dance, though usually only with friend Georgie, because she likes to dance too.... 'cept she been pregnant for the last 9 months. -_-;

Anyway.... I suck at dancing, but I do it anyway if I get drunk enough and... well, if Georgie is also dancing. Is fun. Y'know? Just... fun... to make a prat of myself in public somewhere other than the Internet.

Alkthash

Okay, perhaps I'm looking at this from the wrong angle. It's not why is it fun, that's a preference thing and people generally suck at answering those. Instead I should be asking "why doesn't being foolish bother these people?" Why does it not bother them when they are not in good control of their own situation?

Khwarizmi

Maybe it does.

It bothers me that I suck at writing and math and piano and sports and video games and dancing, but all of those activities are to some degree enjoyable, certainly moreso than sitting around moping about how useless I am would be.

InsanityAddict

Because alcohol is delicious.

Khwarizmi

^ Better answer.

Noimporta

Did someone bring up the relativity of competence yet?

SotiCoto

One can be utterly foolish at what one is doing and yet still in total control of the situation.

Alkthash

InsanityAddict - explain people doing what I've described without the aid of mind altering substances.

Noimporta - Ctrl+f says no. But for discussion's sake we assume skill at the levels they and people around them recognize as proficient.

InsanityAddict

Plenty of chemicals in the brain: you're never without your own mind-altering substances.

MillerCross

why doesn't being foolish bother these people?" Why does it not bother them when they are not in good control of their own situation?

You're assuming it doesn't bother them. That's dead wrong.

Alkthash

Then why do they keep doing it if they are so bothered by it?

SotiCoto

Because they want to get better?
Or because they have to?
Haven't we already been over this?