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So I finally decided to watch an episode of My Little Pony

13

Comments

  • TheMightyAnonymTheMightyAnonym
    edited 2011-06-08 00:14:04
    ~♥YES♥~! I *AM* a ~♥cupcake♥~! ^_^
    Character
    dynamics, character interactions, morality of the world, moral
    complexity of the antagonists/protagonists, the difficulty of the
    decisions they face, the adversity they must overcome, the value of
    their failures as compared to the value of their successes, the
    underlying mythology, the motivations of the characters, the history of
    the characters, the number of plot threads, the way the plot threads
    interact.

    The
    setting of the world, the position of the world on the idealism/cynical
    scale, the world/its races/its grammars/physical locations/animals, the
    vibrancy of the world itself.

    The
    camera angles used and their effectiveness, the character's
    interactions with the scenery, the background characters and their
    actions compared to the characters.

    And much, much, much more.

    I think you're over complicating things. Most of that stuff isn't actually complexity.

    Different possible definitions of what constitutes "complex":

    • Wealth of personality. (Characters with personalities deeper than any simple flanderized archtype. Multiple characters with lots of different relationships also plays into this. )
    • World building. (This should be simple enough. A good example of a well built world would be Middle Earth from Lord of the Rings.)
    • Entangled plot. (X happened because of Y after Z did A and C did B, but not because F saw J doing P - A good example of this would be Monster.)
    • Over-arching themes, perhaps to do with morality. (Is killing in X situation okay, for example.)

    That's what I could come up with. I'm sure there's more though.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    World building. (This should be simple enough. A good example of a well built world would be Middle Earth from Lord of the Rings.)

    the world/its races/its grammars/physical locations/animals

    Entangled plot. (X happened because of Y after Z did A and C did B, but not because F saw J doing P - A good example of this would be Monster.)

     the number of plot threads, the way the plot threads interact.
  • TheMightyAnonymTheMightyAnonym
    edited 2011-06-08 00:15:29
    ~♥YES♥~! I *AM* a ~♥cupcake♥~! ^_^
    I put it more cleanly.

    :P
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    I listed a bunch of points.

    It's a hell of a lot more complex than even what I listed- those are just the ones off the top of my head.

    But... There's a lot of stuff which, I'm sorry to say, MLP does not have.

    For example. Why does Ponyworld, a world inhabited by PONIES which have HOOVES and ONLY KNEES ON THEIR FORELEGS, have STAIRS?

    And WHERE ARE THE OTHER DRAGONS? Did the PONY MAGIC kill them?
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    To me complexity is simply exploring the concept. Example: LOTR's concept is a war that spawns millions of nations and people and races while only a fellowship made of elves, humans et al can finish it for good. 

    in a less complex story, we would only focus on the fellowship and their travels. In semi complex story, we would focus on the fellowship, their personalities and what drives them to keep walking, in a complex story, we would also explore how this quest affects the whole land and the people they meet along the trip. In a super complex story, we would also explore the themes that this brings (The fact that the only person who can finish the war in question is a person from race that is normally looked down upon, that race and origin do not determine potential, etc etc)

    Which puts Tolkien at super complex, obviously

    Admittedly, this is a completely made up on the spot criteria and it's just a racionalization of what I look for in a work, you can put it in doubt, if you want.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    That's a complex theme.

    But you can also have complex characters, and a complex world <--- This one is what LOTR is really known for.

    Tolkien has a complex world. He also has somewhat complex themes and characters; which, overall, makes for a complex and memorable story.
  • TheMightyAnonymTheMightyAnonym
    ~♥YES♥~! I *AM* a ~♥cupcake♥~! ^_^
    Now to use my criteria on K-on! and My Little Pony:

    Wealth of personality: K-on! has more realistic characters, while MLP is more creative about its characters. This one is debatable, and so I shall leave it be - mostly because K-on! will be attacked for having boring characters (which doesn't really mean simple) and MLP will be accused of having shallow characters. I'll have to side with MLP. of course, and my reasons are mostly stuff like Pinkie Pie being happy all the time but also having insecurities, Fluttershy being shy most of the time, but having moments of intense anger, etc.

    World building: Lauren Faust and her crew have done a superb job of creating Equestria; having put a great deal of effort into the workings of their society. K-on! is a regular school, and has little world to look at other than field trips and school events.

    Entangled plot: The pilot episode of MLP did OK here (at least if you payed close enough attention). Later episodes vary, however. There is a fair bit of backstory though. K-on! doesn't really have a semblance of a plot for the most part. It could win though; I haven't watched it in a while.

    Over-arching themes, perhaps to do with morality: K-on! has next to nothing other than the usual follow your dreams stuff (and even with that it isn't pushed or explored at all). This one definitely goes to MLP, which has different problems tackled throughout the show, all the while promoting feminist themes.
  • VorpyVorpy
    edited 2011-06-08 00:30:53
    ☭Unstoppable Sex Goddess☭
    I doubt the intended audience would demand everything to have a reason, a backstory and complexity. It would get in the way of watching Pinkie pie dancing the can can.


    Also, Gelzo declares that I should like MLP more. I shall.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    edited 2011-06-08 00:32:11
    You can change. You can.
    That's a complex theme.

    No, that's a complex exploration of a theme. Huge difference. And yeah, I just used LOTR because it was mentioned.

    ^ Lack of complexity is not bad. I like quite a few things which are lacking in that department and most people wouldn't call them exactly complex. Shit I'm a super hero comic book fan, I'm pretty much unqualified to not like a work based on it not being complex. :P
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    No, that's a complex exploration of a theme.

    Too many words take too long to type.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    edited 2011-06-08 00:36:01
    You can change. You can.
    Lazy. :P
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    There is a fair bit of backstory though.

    THEN WHAT HAPPENED TO THE DRAGONS
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    ^^ That's me and you know it.
  • ViviVivi
    $80+ per session
    But he said "big difference", as in, they don't mean the same thing Cygan.
  • evilnekoevilneko
  • GelzoGelzo
    edited 2011-06-08 00:42:15
    Pony Sleuth
    There have been at least two dragons in the series besides Spike. Both of which were adults that seemingly lived alone in caves outside of Equestria with a hoard of treasure. That's easily more representation than some of the other mythical creatures shown in the series. There's only been one each of griffins and sea serpents. There's no reason to think that dragons have been killed off, they just probably have a naturally low population and are foreign to where the characters live.

    ^Keep telling yourself that.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    ^^ That's me and you know it.

    Which is why I love hanging out with you, lazy bum. -ruffles your hair-

    @evilneko: You're this close to make me watch the ponies and never never never never watching K-On with your non-arguments.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Jesus Christ, Neko.


    Annoying, ain't it.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    There have been at least two dragons in the series besides Spike. Both of which were adults that seemingly lived alone in caves outside of Equestria with a hoard of treasure. That's easily more representation than some of the other mythical creatures shown in the series. There's only been one each of griffins and sea serpents. There's no reason to think that dragons have been killed off, they just probably have a naturally low population and are foreign to where the characters live.

    THEN WHY IS SPIKE THERE AND NOT LIVING IN A TREASURE CAVE
  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    He's a baby dragon for one. He's also been raised by ponies since he was hatched.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    GAH! WHY DID YOU POST YAOI, CYGAN!?

    I thought you were above such petty actions...
  • ViviVivi
    $80+ per session
    Twilight Sparkle hatched him herself.
  • ┻━┻ ︵ ヽ(`Д´）╯︵ ┻━┻┻━┻ ︵ ヽ(`Д´）╯︵ ┻━┻
    Tableflipper
    Annoying, ain't it.


    I want to rub his cheeks...
  • Central AvenueCentral Avenue
    ...this is going to become another imagespam thread isn't it
  • DYREDYRE
    edited 2011-06-08 00:53:11
    That is the fate of all threads.

    Well, that or shitty musicspam threads.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    I sunk down to her level.

  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    No, it's not.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Oh for fuck's sake. You know what? I'm totally calling Glenn up in this bitch. Don't care if he's sleep. You should all be banned for a day, to see if you think your actions throughly.


    (Seriously, though, quit the image spamming. Nobody likes it)
  • ViviVivi
    $80+ per session
    I do.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    I don't. And I'm a mod, so HA.
This discussion has been closed.