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Politics

24

Comments

  • ForzareForzare
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    I'm starting to like this ninja mod.  Whoever it is.
  • FrodoGoofballCoTVFrodoGoofballCoTV
    edited 2011-05-24 00:19:17

    I could go my whole life without voting.

    IJBM when I don't vote.

    regulation as in "restriction" or "prohibition" as if it is a good thing. The fuck?.

    Many people honestly fear a lack of restrictions on others' ability to take away their rights ("positive freedoms") more than lack of freedom to do whatever they please themselves ("negative freedoms").

    IMHO while both are necessary for a pleasant free society, the question is where the line is drawn.

  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    edited 2011-05-24 00:34:49
    I see freedom as an inherently negative value myself. positive freedom goes on a contradictory notion of "rights to receive"  Which is an sharp-dull.

    So, if freedom is an inherently negative value, let us chat about the Natural Rights upon which most of modern government is modeled.  John Locke's model, probably the most famous, states that everyone free to live once they are created, free to own what they gain through their own creation or trade so long as it doesn't conflict with the first right, and the right to liberty, to do what they wish so long as it doesn't interfere with the first two rights.  I see nothing "inherently negative" about this, though it is a little idealized, and it does not base itself on the notion of "rights to receive", but was rather observed through generations of human and animal behavior.  

    If you find positive freedom "inherently negative", and have a thing against the regulation, "restriction", and "prohibition" of governing bodies, I suggest you take the hikikomori way out, and shut yourself away from the world.
  • FrodoGoofballCoTVFrodoGoofballCoTV

    IJBM when people refer to stuff like health insurance or a driver's licence as a "right".

  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    edited 2011-05-24 00:31:48
    They are not! Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


  • TheConductorTheConductor
    Health isn't a right? Lolwhut?
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    It isn't! Do you own that mans services? Do you own his resources?
  • ForzareForzare
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    I do.
  • TheConductorTheConductor
    No, because I'm poor. SO I deserve to get ill and die because I'm poor?
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    edited 2011-05-24 00:43:15
    Wait what? you own that mans services so the doctor is reduced to the role of a slave. Fuck that. Tell me what is a right and hwere does it come from?

    If you would read my additions to your posts, you would find yourself enlightened, somewhat.  Second of Locke's natural laws, you own what you create or gain through trade.  Way back when humanity still used a barter system, this was a lot more straight forward.  Now that currency has become the standard, it get's a little iffier.  If you pay what you own to a doctor in exchange for his craft, you own his abilities for as long as you pay for.  It's your choice to then suspend payment, in exchange for suspense of services, or the doctor's choice to suspend services in exchange for the suspense of payment.  Malpractice factors in when the doctors craft interferes with the patient's inherent right to life.  
  • TheConductorTheConductor
    All the doctors in Scotland get paid very well. They get paid through my taxes. It's a much less barbaric system.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    It isn't! Do you own that mans services? Do you own his resources?

    No, but the government does. And the government has to look out for their citizens.
  • BobBob
    edited 2011-05-24 00:39:20
    @Conductor:
  • ForzareForzare
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    I own all of it.

    I am the Illuminati, beeotch.
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    The only role of government is to protect liberty not to giv eyou free shit. Health care is expensive because it takes time and resources there aint no such thing as a free lunch. Don't people get that? Frodo back me up here.
  • BucketBucket
    edited 2011-05-24 00:41:17
    Obama is bad for America.

    So are the lack of things to rebel against.
  • ForzareForzare
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    America is bad for America.
  • TheConductorTheConductor
    It's not free. Taxes pay for it. I pay for some, my neighbor pays for some, the guy across the street pays for some, and we all reap the benefits. What's wrong with that?
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    edited 2011-05-24 00:44:19
    The government owning eveyrthing is just insane your talkign about an enforced monopoly! You're talking about forcing others to pay for your medical treatment! your talking about a fucking Utopia Justifies The Means situation.

    Because they are paying through the threat of force. Listen if you want to practice socialism ge ta couple of your neighbors in to it and VOLUNTARILY pool resources. This is possible you know. You don't need mommy government to make people share their toys.
  • TheConductorTheConductor
    Really? Cause Scotland has 'free' medcare, and it's far from a Utopia.


  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    edited 2011-05-24 02:20:03
    Still the point stands it's an Ends Justify the means scenario and tha tscares the shit out of me. 

    If someone is going to edit my post At least sign it!

    Sure. -Cygan (Only made this edit to say this paragraph, no past ones.)
  • TheConductorTheConductor
    You know what scares the shit out of me?

    America. It is utterly barbaric. I'm sorry, I don't mean to insult any one (gonna pull the "I-have-american-friends" card), But my GOD a society that glorifies guns, makes people pay for medicine and has the sheer gall to traipse around the world yelling at people who have WMDs despite having more than any other country and even sells them to other countries. WTAF. Not to mention being the only country in the world to ever drop nukes on another!

    Jesus H. Christ. It utterly alludes me to how such a...backwards society because one of the most powerful in the world.
  • ForzareForzare
    edited 2011-05-24 00:55:58
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    Hey, Ninja Mod, I don't think tnu is reading your edits.

    Oh, I'm well aware of that.  He also wasn't aware when I decided to swap some of his posts with Bob's last night.  But I suppose in his case, ignorance is bliss.  Which is something I mentioned briefly in one of my earlier edits in this thread. -The Editor.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    The government owning eveyrthing is just insane your talkign about an enforced monopoly! 

    For starters, the government does enable private health contractors and in fact, these tend to be better because they aren't restricted by the national budget being distributed everywhere.

    And taxes are a neccesity. We live in a society. Therefore we are together and we live in group. Societies are nothing but big human packs. And only on thing can look out for the pack and that's the pack itself.
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    Whatever happend to personal responsibility why is having ot buy your own shit so barbaric?
  • DiamonnesDiamonnes
    edited 2011-05-24 01:00:11

    IJBM that the moderation has taken it upon themselves to edit people's posts instead of just posting like normal people in a thread.


    Not cool, dude.  - This operates under the assumption that I am a moderator.  Or even that I am an official member of the community.


    Juan: That would involve the Pack being a singular entity as opposed to a bunch of people in a group. 
  • ForzareForzare
    edited 2011-05-24 00:57:50
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    ^^ What about people who die because they can't afford medicine?

    ^ Don't insult the Ninja Mod.  He is our God.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    edited 2011-05-24 00:59:55
    You can change. You can.
    LOL DOUBLE POST!

    But my GOD a society that glorifies guns: Hardly the first one. Hardly the last one. Hardly the only one

    makes people pay for medicine: Everyone pays for medicine in one shape or another. 

    and has the sheer gall to traipse around the world yelling at people who have WMDs despite having more than any other country: Russia says hi. 

    and even sells them to other countries: If there is demand, then there should be a supplier. Otherwise, economy won't flow

    Not to mention being the only country in the world to ever drop nukes on another!: It was either that or continuing a war that would have being detrimental for the whole world.

    Juan: That would involve the Pack being a singular entity as opposed to a bunch of people in a group.  

    It should be...or at least, it should act as one if we want to survive.
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    Ok so theoretically if I can't afford medicine I should find someone else and hold them at gunpoint to tell them to give me the money?
  • ForzareForzare
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    Dude, enough with the gunpoint shit.  Nobody is holding anyone at gunpoint.
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