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Chrono Cross

edited 2011-05-11 21:48:51 in General
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Do fans of CT like this game or not?

Everyone here seems to hate it, but Metacritic is full of glowing reviews of it.
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Comments

  • edited 2011-05-11 21:48:19
    Morgan Freeman is God
    Depends who you ask. It's really a case of a Contested Sequel.
  • Some people like it and some people don't, but that could be said for anything.
  • They call me Rate Miser, whatever I see... turns overrated in my eyes...
    OP: Magazine critics != fans. (When it comes to complaining about canon, at least...)
  • edited 2011-05-11 23:44:16
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    Most people I've met hate Chrono Cross with a passion.

    I did meet one guy though, who was a devout fan of it and went around saying that everybody who hated it was contributing to the stagnation and downfall of RPGs. But he was also one of those "story is all that matters" fucktards.

    As for magazines having a different opinion, well, as noted they're not hardcore and they're looking for different things. And there's always the old theory that "professional" critics are nothing but shills who will praise anything that's big-ticket (and CC was pretty big-ticket at the time of release).
  • I was including the user reviews in that, too.
  • It's good on its own merits, but as a continuation of Chrono Trigger it's...unsatisfying.
  • Writer, Artist, Obscure.
    From what I understand from reading a lot of opinions, it seems that if you liked Chrono Trigger, you'll hate Chrono Cross. I haven't played it myself because after all I've learned about it I really don't want to. 

    And I imagine that reviews from say magazines or critics in general are going to have a different way of seeing things than your average gamer or hardcore fan will.

    I'm guessing the game is adequate on it's on as I understand it but really, I want a CT sequel so I probably won't play it.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    I also dislike the plot of Crimson Echoes, but I commend the fans who thought through the series lore and crafted it.

    Also, boo to Squenix for shutting down Crimson Echoes.
  • I _HATE_ the game. I does the worst crime a sequel can do: Shit all over the game it's following. Oh, all you did in the previous game? POINTELESS! Heck, you probably made things worst! Bring a CT character back just so you can kill/delete him in the very same scene? Classy.


    Then there's the small issues like so many characters, no one gets any development. Or revealling in act 4 that the quest that the quest that made the bulk of act 2 was pointless. "Save Kid! We gotta go find an antidote" (Fast forward) "Oh, I don't die. Whenever I am in mortal danger, I wake up somewhere else and I'm fine!"

    It has it's moments, a semi clever combat system, but really, it's just a big disapointment. Why are magazines filled with reviews? Read 8.8 on Tvtropes. How much money do you think Squaresoft put towards the publicity for this game? The long awaited sequel of an acclaimed game from an acclaimed producer like Squaresoft? Of course professional reviews are gonna drool all over it. And it's worth remembering a lot of reviewers don't finish a game before writing the review, CC saves most of it's badness for after the first 10 hours.
  • Beautiful. 
  • The Sonic Series Wiki Curator of TvTropes
    ^^^ -cleans up foam-
  • Please, if you've ever seen me rant about CC, this is short by comparison :)
  • no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    If I may be honest here:

    Part of the reason Chrono Trigger was good was because it was more of an Enix game than a Squaresoft game. No seriously: they brought in members of the Dragon Quest team to work on it, and to be honest: Yuji Horii is a game design genius. I mean, on his first go at creating an RPG he had already half-perfected the genre, and anyway, Enix had always produced games of consistent quality, which ranged from "good" to "awesome."

    Squaresoft, on the other hand, is and has always been staffed by people who seem to basically stumble through and have no idea what they're doing, and you get the feeling that when they make a good game its almost entirely by accident. Even their greatest ones though, have signs of their ineptitude. Just a case in point: "Level up as usual, but you only get stat increases if you have espers equipped. Oh, by the way, you don't get espers until several hours into the game."

    Now Chrono Trigger--the game basically has "Yuji Horii" written all over it. Among the man's strengths are that he knows how to make a clear and efficient game that is free of clutter, and that's exactly what Chrono Trigger is. I imagine if Horii hadn't been involved, then Trigger would've been bloated with hundreds of ill-thought out ideas and bad game mechanics that the staff of Square would have no idea how to smooth over, but would've just run with them because they think its cool... sort of like what they did with its sequel (and indeed, practically every PS1 game they made. I must admit their entire library became practically unplayable in that console generation).

    In short, the problem with Chrono Cross is that they didn't bring back Yuji Horii.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    > Just a case in point: "Level up as usual, but you only get stat
    increases if you have espers equipped. Oh, by the way, you don't get
    espers until several hours into the game."

    I don't think this is a problem.  How is this a problem?  Why would I necessarily want stat tweaking from the start of the game?

    > I mean, on his first go at creating an RPG he had already half-perfected the genre [with Dragon Quest]

    Well, why was Final Fantasy so much more popular in the U.S.?
  • edited 2011-05-12 15:52:55
    I can go with simpler, direct reasons why CT is good. I have friends who hate JRPGs and still regard CT as one of the best games of all times.

    For one, the story, and how it's delivered. The game doesn't sink to navel gazing. It has clear, simple motivations: Lavos will destroy the world, stop him. Everything you do has a clear purpose: You defeat Magus because you think he summons Lavos. You fight the reptite coz they took the portal key. Events and the plot work together well. Everything is straightforward, but doesn't fall into childish simplicity: It has a cool gimmick (time travel) which it embraces fully. What you do in the past changes the future, and it keeps you going, because you don't just want to see what happens, but what it has changed! Chrono Trigger was one of the first game that let you feel like you were not just having an adventure, but you were actively forging the world with every action you took.

    CC on the other end falls into the metaphysical and the nonsensical. So futures who were retcon travel back into past to do... something... And now both nonexistent futures are at war, and one has to wonder what is the nature of reality!  Heck, when you go a place where "Dead timelines go" what does that even mean?! The twin dimension thing has no appeal compared to time travel. Dimension A has no impact in dimension B, except that is makes you have to revisit the same locals and some of the same dungeons twice. There's none of the feel of CT where you see that you are shaping the world.
  • BeeBee
    edited 2011-05-12 16:16:28
    I think the SA Lets Play of Chrono Cross mocks it in far better detail than I could type here.  The whole thing is basically 100% incoherent idiot plot with a failed attempt at pretentious philosophizing, most of the characters are faceless goons with little to no bearing on the plot, and whoever came up with Poshul needs to soak their brain in acid.

    And you definitely can have a huge yet well-developed cast.  Look at Suikoden.
  • no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    @glennmagusharvey

    To answer the first question: Because its screwing the player out of something, through no fault of their own.

    Admittedly this becomes a case of one flaw balancing out another (since stat-tweaking really doesn't have that much impact), but still, it shows Square's lack of foresight creeping into an otherwise perfect game.

    As for the second: Could be anything. Difference in release schedules. Cultural differences. Americans just like crap. Because God says so. If I had to give an honest answer, I'd say it has to do with that for the longest time we only got the absolute best games in the franchise. It doesn't hurt that Final Fantasy VII has become a cultural icon.
  • edited 2011-05-12 16:34:22
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    I don't see how stat-tweaking is...y'know what, what if they didn't even have stat-tweaking at all?

    I know I played FFVI completely ignoring those stat increases, so to me, it was no loss at all.

    You are looking at it from the perspective of a player who has foreknowledge of the game's workings, AND has the desire to maximize character stats.  So, a knowledgeable munchkin.

    On the other hand, I could argue that that's good game design because it doesn't present all the game options to a player at the beginning of the game, but rather staggers the presentation of gameplay features.  This argument would apply for the case of someone with no foreknowledge of the game and who's going in for a first-time experience.

    What I meant by citing FF's popularity is that I don't see how DQ is objectively better than FF.  Also, the popularity of FF7 had no causative effect on the popularity of the FF series before FF7.
  • I think the SA Lets Play of Chrono Cross mocks it in far better detail than I could type here.  The whole thing is basically 100% incoherent idiot plot with a failed attempt at pretentious philosophizing, most of the characters are faceless goons with little to no bearing on the plot, and whoever came up with Poshul needs to soak their brain in acid.

    It probably ranks as one of my favorite LP of all times. That the author had to play through a game he dislikes so much to make the LP and in so much details is a credit to him.
  • I did like the music, though.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    I think that's something that everyone agrees on--Cross's music is great.
  • Morgan Freeman is God
    Now that Square and Enix are together I can hope for a new Chrono game that has Akira Toriyama's artwork and Yuji Horii working on the gameplay.
  • Writer, Artist, Obscure.
    Now that Square and Enix are together I can hope for a new Chrono game
    that has Akira Toriyama's artwork and Yuji Horii working on the
    gameplay.



    =D HAhahah hahahahhah ahhaha hahhhaaaaaa aaaaaa huhuhuhuh waaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaa TT^TT
  • I'm just holding out hope for another Actraiser game.

    Oh, Quintet, truly you lived to short of a time on this earth.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    The company died?

    Well, that's a green light to make a fan-sequel.
  • Morgan Freeman is God
    I would make an Actraiser fan-sequel if I had the know-how.

    Also, Mousa, may I ask you just why you think that what I said is so funny?
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    ^ A typical means of mockery of someone who puts hope in what is perceived to be a hopeless cause.
  • They're somethin' else.
    http://itjustbugsme.com/forums/discussion/comment/54198#Comment_54198
    Regarding Moe Dantes' point.

    I think that's why I've always liked the Dragon Quest games better than I did the Final Fantasy's. A good amount of consistency and no clutter.
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