I am sick of complaining about the things I don't like about RPGs

Vorpy

So I decided to actually do something about it, by making a simple mini-rpg engine to dick around with.

Sure, it's not going to be ground breaking...or good...or even popular, but eventually it's something to sink my time into.

The problem is, I am not sure whether to make it a Java game or use Python. (most likely this creative spark will die and I will lose interest in this, but it doesn't hurt to do something)

Does anybody know anything bout how to start this?

DYRE

I would say to use ika, which is an engine for writing RPGs in Python (though, it doesn't actually have any RPG-specific features) and it handles loading maps and sprites and animations and collision detection and stuff for you, but development on it has been nonexistent for a while and, in fact, the website doesn't even work.  Plus there's not much documentation for it.  So don't use ika.

Regardless, Python would definitely be quicker to develop in than Java, so do that.  Pygame is a good engine for, well, games in Python.  Or if you want to make something 3D you could try Panda3D.

Vorpy

I don't need it to be 3D. 2D is fine. Always wanted to try and make a 2D oblivion.

DonZabu

-teehee-

http://rpgmaker.net

DYRE

^^ Well then... use Pygame I guess.

If it's just some small project then it doesn't make much sense to use Java, since it'll probably just make it take longer and you'll lose interest faster, and I doubt performance is too much of a concern.

And for 2D games, Pygame is pretty much the best engine for Python.

^ But... RPG Maker is not half as cool as programming a game in... any programming language.

Vorpy

^^ Eh, the battle style is kind of ugly looking when I tried the trial version for 20 days, and I have to kind of whore out to another company that expects TEH MONEYS. Although having everything premade is nice.

Vorpy

Part 1 of....where do I fucking go?

do I download ALL of it or is there a main core file somewhere?

DYRE

http://www.pygame.org/download.shtml

Under the "Windows" header. Or whatever other header is relevant for your OS.

Download the version appropriate to your installed version of Python.

Either way you definitely didn't need to go to the page you went to.

DonZabu

^^^ All the cool kids use the free, illegally translated older versions.

DYRE

All the cool kids use OHRRPGCE.

...maybe...

Alternatively, all the cool kids use the console RPG Makers.

I have all 3 that were released in America, and I actually got 2 and 3 on their respective release dates. >.>

Vorpy

I have OHRRPGCE on my computer but I haven't gotten into using it heavily due to the fact that it's image editor is difficult to work with and I don't know how to import files.

Vorpy

Also, when it comes to combat systems for multiplayer, is it bad to have a lot of things based on luck (ergo, % chance for critical hit/accurate hit/paralysis effect whatever? ) or bad to have too many things rely on skill?

Icalasari

^ Too much luck. Some luck can make the game exciting in my opinion, but you should not have a ton of it unless it is a casual game. Having a boss you can't beat because you keep getting crap luck despite being a god at the game otherwise is not fun

DYRE

On the other hand, having a reasonable amount of things be luck-based (what exactly is reasonable depends on the game, so... just go with what feels good I guess, though at the very least, critical hits are usually considered acceptable by most people as long as they only occur somewhat infrequently) will probably help make combat more suspenseful, which will make it more fun to some players.  More frustrating to some other players though, too.  But you can never please everyone.

Vorpy

I was just looking for a general rule-of-thumb on what is acceptable and what is annoying. Think of it like a 10% chance to hit a Blissey that was soaked in Evasion buffs is annoying and no fun to play with, but is it as annoying as an enemy that scores more critical hits than you?

Nova

General level of acceptability is about a 1-in-12 chance of scoring a critical hit. Enough so that it happens, but not enough so that your enemy can get more than one or two in a fight.

Vorpy

Also, is the FF 1-8 Battle Style more popular than the Fire Emblem Grid-based battle system?

Random encounters vs. enemies already on map I mean.

DYRE

Those are completely different kinds of games.  I guess I'd rather play a tactical RPG (like Fire Emblem), but both styles have their merits.  Final Fantasy style is a lot easier to program though.

Vorpy

Well, I guess I could try and work with FF style to see what I can get.

And then again, this song made me think of a strange idea that I actually kind of liked. It was Advance Wars, but in space with starships/spaceships.

Nova

Most people prefer more real-time combat, actually; they prefer the ability to see their opponents and avoid them.

It depends on a few factors, including:

- Is there any method of reliably stopping the random encounters at any point throughout the game?

- The load time for each encounter.

- The difficulty of the random encounters.

But it's really more a question of whether you want to give players an overland map to walk around, or if you want to eliminate travel times. If you want players to walk, random encounters are best; if not, grid-based battle systems.

That said, I prefer Dragon Quest's systems better.

Edit: And, as DYRE said, they're also used in different types of games.

DYRE

That said, if you do want to see an example of a very simplified grid-based RPG battle system (which really can't even be considered a SRPG because of how simple it is), look up Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure.  It has a grid and movement and such, but the AI is incredibly simple, there's no height variation or different kinds of terrain (other than walkable/not walkable), and random battles are generally less than a minute or two long.  Something like that would be... less difficult to make than most other SRPG battle systems, anyway.

Vorpy

I had an idea where the run-of-the-mill enemies were always scaled to your level, so if you wanted to progress through the story without having to sit in the woods fighting things and running back and forth from the inn to the battlefield to get enough XP to kill the next boss, and that random encounters were optional and you could turn them off if you don't feel like putting up with monsters and jumping straight into the fights that weren't optional to test your skill or luck. Grinding would only be important in loot acquisition for weapon upgrades or learning new moves to improve your characters and prepare them for optional super bosses to pursue after the main storyline.

DYRE

I assume by "run-of-the-mill enemies" you also mean bosses, right?  Because Final Fantasy Tactics had leveled random encounters, but non-leveled bosses/other predetermined encounters (I think).  Which was weird because it meant that if you spent much time grinding, the story fights would actually be significantly easier than the random encounters.

Vorpy

Not sure if that would be bad or good. Generally I don't want add a bunch of Goblins or Wolves to the game where they only exist for EXP farming and to die in humongous hoards without offering a challenge later on. Waste-of-space enemies are generally the most uninteresting. Not every fight HAS to be stupid hard or extremely resource gobbling, but it should offer a challenge and some thinking and strategy to overcome.

The boss fights though, not sure whether to put them at a set level.

DYRE

Maybe give bosses a set minimum level, but if the player is significantly above that, then level the boss up a bit?

So like, that way you don't have all the bosses being pathetically weak if the player avoids all the random encounters, but the player can still be challenged even if they spend some time grinding/doing side quests.

Vorpy

That sounds nice. I will add that. Now for the combat system, I was thinking along the lines of a mix of Pokemon and Disgaeaishness.

There would be two screens for attacks,

Normal Moves > Move Slot 1, Move 2,
Special Moves > SA Slot 1, SA Slot 2,

The top would be based on either your equipped weapon or your natural abilities. You could use them as much as you want.

The bottom would be the moves that used MP/SP/PP. Although I am again not sure if this would work.

Nova

Element sytem?

Vorpy

Yeah, I could implement that.

I have some of the basics down, so that each element I use has a general system that benefits it.

• Low damage, high accuracy, priority (will normally hit first more likely than the other attacks) low PP use.
• Medium damage, normal accuracy, normal PP use,
• High damage, less-than-average accuracy, high PP use.

Each attack would have an option to hit all enemies and divide the base damage amongst the number of targets, or focus on one for 10% more damage than normal.

Vorpy

Also, does anybody know of a good program I could make music on that doesn't require any output utilities like a synthesizer or a microphone, and I could just make a simple bloop track on there?

glennmagusharvey

Well, you can create chiptunes using ORG Maker, PxTone, and FamiTracker, I think.

Though...
> output utilities like a synthesizer or a microphone

Those are input utilities, so I am not sure what you mean.

Icalasari

3D models, sprites, or what will be the graphics style?