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Objectivism

RatixRatix
edited 2011-04-15 15:32:19 in Philosophy
What would happen if someone raised a child on hardcore Randian Objectivism? At least all the life lessons like "It's not about you" tend to produce semi-civil adults, how does one combine the inherent selfishness of a child with lessons that basically say "Actually, it is about you"?
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Comments

  • GelzoGelzo
    edited 2011-04-15 16:58:04
    Pony Sleuth
    I would guess it would be similar to children who are spoiled and poorly behaved as a result.
  • IaculusIaculus
    Well, they're going to run into big problems if they have an issue they can't sort out by themselves, like a disability or a mental illness, that's for sure, what with 'mooching is a sin' drilled into their heads at every available opportunity.
  • JHMJHM
    Here, There, Everywhere
    I'm not sure that I would ever wish to meet such a person in any but a very narrow set of contexts; they'd scare me too much.
  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    I've never read a description of Objectivism that made sense to me. Can somebody give me the layman's terms edition?
  • JHMJHM
    Here, There, Everywhere
    It's really contradictory.

    In short: Morality is all about right and wrong with little to nothing in the middle; rational self-interest should be the basis of all behaviour; unfettered free markets are the only economy that works; being on welfare or any government subsidies makes you a horrible person; religion is deeply logically unsound, especially when it promotes forced altruism; and the government is evil, but because anarchy is a bad idea, it needs to exist, but only to build roads and try criminals.
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    How is it conredictory. The government is overstepping it's boundries is a pretty sound solid consistant ideology.
  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    Ummm, okay. That sounds like a philosophy where I'd take certain parts, disagree with the rest:

    Morality is all about right and wrong with little to nothing in the middle; rational self-interest should be the basis of all behaviour;


    Agree with the first, disagree with the second.

    unfettered free markets are the only economy that works; being on welfare or any government subsidies makes you a horrible person;


    Not sure about the former. the latter... fuck Ayn Rand *knows people on SSI who are decent folks*

    religion is deeply logically unsound,


    That's half the point though, especially of ones like Taoism (the best religion on the planet)

    especially when it promotes forced altruism;


    ... this is all she had?

    and the government is evil, but because anarchy is a bad idea, it needs to exist, but only to build roads and try criminals.


    ... Yeah, not really sure I agree with this one.
  • BonSequiturBonSequitur
    edited 2011-04-24 10:51:26
    As a petty and vindictive person, I have to take extra steps not to appear petty and vindictive.
    Ayn Rand made her points through a cavalcade of straw men and by ascribing superpowers to her author surrogates in the text. If you thought Bioshock's super-science was a video game thing, think again. Atlas Shrugged actually involves a metal much stronger and lighter than steel and something which is pretty much a zero-point energy engine. Then it has the evil gubbment try to explicitly suppress those inventions, because fuck logic.
  • MyrmidonMyrmidon
    edited 2011-04-24 10:48:44
    Remember kids: organizations are evil, unless they are corporations.

    The preceding statement was an unabashed challenge to the green party.
  • DonZabuDonZabu
    edited 2011-04-24 12:13:20
    In her defense, when she was arguing against altruism, it was against the Comte definition of the word which meant "good is when the ultimate end of your actions is for the benefit of others". This was also the same time that communism was running amok. So really, her philosophies were less "lunatic" and more "overreaction to an out-of-control zeitgeist".
  • JHMJHM
    Here, There, Everywhere
    ^ I agree. That also makes them wildly inappropriate in a modern context.
  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    Well, it's probably not healthy to only do things for others, but I guess that's sort of a moot point in most cases since people can already be expected to act in their self-interest when necessary.

    I mean, if it's good to make another person happy, it should be just as good to make yourself happy.
  • JHMJHM
    Here, There, Everywhere
    Exactly. But one of the problems with the whole philosophy is that it almost acts as if helping others can't make you happy. Which is, of course, stupid.
  • GLORIOUSLeaderGLORIOUSLeader
    When in Turkey, ROCK THE FUCK OUT
    Technically, we perform altruism for our own self-gratification, but that's a whole other argument. 

    That sounds like a philosophy where I'd take certain parts, disagree with the rest

    Ditto. 
  • TurtleTurtle
    I like turtles.
    Morality is all about right and wrong with little to nothing in the
    middle
    There are sometimes gray areas, but there are very clear rights and wrongs.

    rational self-interest should be the basis of all behaviour
    Disagree.  Unless we're assuming God doesn't exist, in which case I agree.

    unfettered free markets are the only economy that works
    Agree.

    being on
    welfare or any government subsidies makes you a horrible person
    Disagree.  Although too many people who are irresponsible with their property get away scot-free by relying on welfare.  Which isn't to say there aren't people who haven't honestly fallen on hard times, but they're the minority.

    religion is deeply logically unsound
    Most are; Christianity is not.

    especially when it promotes forced
    altruism
    "Forced altruism" is a self-contradictory term.

    and the government is evil, but because anarchy is a bad
    idea, it needs to exist, but only to build roads and try criminals
    The government is not evil.  But anarchy is a bad idea (again, unless we're assuming that God doesn't actually exist).  The government needs to exist to restrain evil.  This includes protecting its citizens, which means a criminal justice system and a military.
  • BonSequiturBonSequitur
    As a petty and vindictive person, I have to take extra steps not to appear petty and vindictive.
    The majority of people on welfare never had property to be irresponsible with.
  • GLORIOUSLeaderGLORIOUSLeader
    edited 2011-04-24 17:59:48
    When in Turkey, ROCK THE FUCK OUT
    Most are; Christianity is not.

    "Forced altruism" is a self-contradictory term.

    I'm really not trying to stir up shit, I promise, but could you elaborate. 
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    My conclusion is that all orginized bodies or at least those with authority are evil.
  • GLORIOUSLeaderGLORIOUSLeader
    When in Turkey, ROCK THE FUCK OUT
    No. 

    Organized bodies are not hiveminds. Not everybody always has the same opinion on how things should be run. 
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    doesn't matter the hierarchy cancells that out.
  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    religion is deeply logically unsound
    Most are; Christianity is not.

  • BonSequiturBonSequitur
    As a petty and vindictive person, I have to take extra steps not to appear petty and vindictive.
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    Am I the only one who sees the irony in that statment?
  • MyrmidonMyrmidon
    edited 2011-04-24 18:27:55
    I'll have you both know that that was highly bigoted, and you just derailed the thread.

    Immediate bans should be issued.
  • BonSequiturBonSequitur
    As a petty and vindictive person, I have to take extra steps not to appear petty and vindictive.
  • GLORIOUSLeaderGLORIOUSLeader
    When in Turkey, ROCK THE FUCK OUT
    ^^^^^ You know, I might have to get around to watching MLP. 
  • BobBob
    edited 2011-04-26 22:15:40

    [Comment deleted]
    [Reason: Shitpost]



  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    ^^The wealth of image reactions is what got me into it.

    ^Actually, one of the episodes had a moral that was mistakenly viewed as pro-religion. A lot of the fans got "saddle-sore" over that one.
  • BobBob
    edited 2011-04-26 22:15:50

    [Comment deleted]
    [Reason: Shitpost]



  • GLORIOUSLeaderGLORIOUSLeader
    edited 2011-04-24 19:13:30
    When in Turkey, ROCK THE FUCK OUT
    Heh, it's funny cuz it's a synonym for butthurt. 

    OT: Really, Turtle, what did you mean by that?
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