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Comments
Your issues with IJBM.
I mean, I'm about to go to bed anyway, so it's probably the wrong time to ask, but I haven't thought of this place in terms of its issues in a while, so I'm curious.
Basically I think we here are too focused on having debates as opposed to discussions. I don't know how much sense that makes.
I think the atmosphere here, except in a few threads, is somewhat overly serious, and I often feel that I am expected to either post a very long, very detailed summary of every possible point or not post at all. Frankly, I simply rarely have the time or desire to do that, so I end up either quipping or more often, just not posting.
I understand that there are people here who enjoy having thorough debates, but I'm not one of them. Generally, I prefer to talk casually about things rather than just try to convince the other person that they're wrong.
I think we also hate on other sites too much. I mean, this thread is honestly a perfect example of that.
Something more minor is the total lack of mod presence. I suppose this is because one isn't really needed, but I honestly frequently forget who the mods here even are. I'm not sure if that's really a bad thing or a good thing, but it makes me a tad uncomfortable, honestly.
I see where you're coming from with the debates vs. discussions bit. I mean, I think there's a lot to be learned by watching people debate things, but people might notice that I rarely participate in them myself, and I only very rarely megapost when I'm debating. As for hating on other sites, it depends on the site, but I also prefer to avoid that, unless something major sticks out. I mean, I'll admit which sites I hate if asked specifically, but I'd sooner defend the ones I like (like SA, because there are so many goons that it seems really silly to judge them as a whole; I mean, I don't particularly like the Hair Styling Megathread's opinions, for instance, but the One Piece thread is pretty fun, if prone to reusing the joke about Sabo too often). As for the lack of mod presence, I would say that that's a good thing, since it means that people are doing okay on the whole.
Sorry; we probably should have posted warnings every time you posted something to the effect of "this thred is ejjy" instead of just the once.
aw snap
I will definitely agree that hating on everyone in any given large site is a tad silly, despite my opinion that sites that encourage a hivemind mentality are kind of bad on the whole, and I think SA does encourage that, though I'm not there enough to know for certain, I suppose. I do like some goons and ex-goons, so I certainly don't hate every single one of them. I think their uh, "moderation team" needs work though.
As for debating yeah, I think we're just....I dunno. Good example is the video game thread which is generally recommendations half the time, and then it will sometimes turn into super-long posts on the finer points of game design, which is fine and all, but then I kinda feel like I'm not able to post anything else there until said debate is done.
I actually only said that in particular once. I said "'k" or "sure" far more times. Like I noted elsewhere, I tend to quip when I really shouldn't. It's a bad habit, and I've made an effort to stop doing it since it clearly bothers more people here than it does on other sites I visit. So can we not try to bait me? Cuz that's kind of the impression I'm getting from that post.
I'm also not the person who came up with "ejjy as fuqq" as a fun synonym for "you're being an asshat", but I forget where it's from specifically. I came across it once while surfin' the internet and have used it ever since.
The only meaningful difference between the two is that debates focus on a select group of people addressing each other's points in an attempt to sway people's beliefs, while discussion encourages audience participation and invites people to make their cases.
We have a fairly even mix of both, and the only debates that usually crop up are between a few select people about game design/narrative styles, which people are free to ignore and often do.
I don't think SA encourages a hivemind at all; the different subforums can be pretty separate at times, since they cover lots of different topics, and I've seen fightsport posters post in ways that would get them mercilessly probated in other parts of the forum; aside from the general site rules, which basically amount to "read these rules and don't be dumb," there's no universal set of stuff that'll get you whaled on. I'll occasionally see people from one nerd thread in another nerd thread, but it's not usually so much "think like us" (except E/N, because that's about people with quality lives/who've overcome adversity helping others to fix their situations. And, again, Hair Styling, in my experience) as "this is why I think I'm right, and if you tick me off, I'll be blunt about why I think you're wrong, what say you?" For instance, the Magic: the Gathering hot button issues thread has had plenty of debates, and while some are pretty one-sided because one side consists of one asshat, there are sometimes debates that are hard for me to call one way or the other, and that are well-reasoned.
See that's not really what I see the difference being. The latter's just basically a different kind of debate to me. I'm not really sure how I'd quantify a "discussion" as opposed to a "debate" though, to be honest with you. I suppose discussions just tend to focus less on trying to get people to agree with you, which might be what you're saying now that I re-read it, but that's not what I thought you meant.
I would see this as encouraging a hivemind mentality. It's not hard to go from "I am going to be blunt about my opinions because I think I'm right" to "being blunt is what makes me right about my opinions" at all. This used to be a huge problem in OTC too and the old IJBM too. I think if you can't have a discussion without one or more parties being dicks, the discussion is probably not worth having.
Not as a homogenous whole, but definitely within subsets of the forum. See: GBS or PYF.
Maybe. I just think it's inaccurate to call . . . well, almost anything, a goon problem, as opposed to, say, a GBS problem (and I won't deny that GBS has problems). Charlatan's OP annoyed me because, well, not all goons are like that, and I don't even think it's that common in the parts I frequent. If anything, that's a General Discussion problem. And I haven't noticed entertainment elitism, either, or people acting like they're better than other fans of the series (unless the other fans are creeps, in which case, that speaks through evidence).
I might've phrased that poorly. I don't usually find people being dickish until one person steps out of line in some way, but it's at that point when people might start being a bit more blunt, and even then, it's never just someone being shouted down (in fact, people seem to almost never back down, in the subforums I frequent) without logical assertions.
But see the idea that there's a "stepping out of line" that warrants verbal punishment is one I have problems with. It's not exclusively a "goon thing", but I have seen that sentiment from more than one Something Awful member.
Depends on how we're defining "stepping out of line." If it's neglecting punctuation, that'll obviously vary from forum to forum, and on SA it's generally taken care of with a brief probation, no catfighting necessary, but if it's one dude suddenly being a shithead, it's fair that other people will call them out on it, in my opinion.
This is absurd. Assuming you mean a temporary ban by "probation".
This is really vague, though.
So, in essence, the problem here is that... You dislike the manner people here and on other websites talk/act in. Is that correct, or not?
It is pretty absurd, but SA is a pretty absurd forum by definition. Some people see appeal on that aspect, others don't.
But that's not an issue. At least, not substantially speaking. It bothers you (And hell, it does bother me too) but that's just a preference and there's nothing wrong with that.
That's basically what it is; they can still read the forums, but can't post for a while because they were too lazy to punctuate (which is annoying if done solely for that reason, as opposed to a joke), or for other reasons. It is kind of silly, but at the same time, a lot of the things you can do to get probated are really easy to avoid, and probations for that sort of thing are often very brief. Like, six hours, or half a day, or something. You can get probated countless times and keep coming back. It's more like getting a little low-key warning that you're annoying the public, in cases like that, and it's generally just a "go outside" sort of thing if you were getting heated up and starting a dumb argument (and, while mods might not be as prompt as you'd like, they'll punish the people who were out of line).
Can't think of anything off the top of my head, but our opinions on what merits a unified "shut up" are probably going to vary anyway.
I guess if you wanted to simplify it by quite a bit, yes. But I'd like to think my grievances are slightly more substantial than that. And to be honest, most issues people have with things in general are just things they dislike about those things. So I am not entirely sure what you're trying to say or imply here.
I am not sure I can express how I feel about that without coming across as overly flippant.
Well, I'm trying to read more into it. For example, you have said that one of this site's issues is that it encourages debate over discussion.
But you have not actually said why that's a problem.
So I am forced to ask if this is what you mean, or... what.
^^ It's pretty absurd, but it's really not a big deal, so I just think of it as one of those little quirks that a goon pays to see. (I say "a goon" rhetorically because someone else actually bought me my account, way back when. I later paid for a name/avatar deal, of course, and I'm considering getting an archive upgrade, but the base account was free for me, so my perceptions of the site might be colored a bit, or something).
I'm really not sure what further clarification you want. I've said why I find it annoying. If you don't agree with me, then, well, you don't, but that's not the same as me not giving reasons.
Honestly the whole "paying for everything" thing bothers me about SA too, and is mostly the reason I've never actually done anything there. Lots of little things bother me about SA, to be perfectly honest with you.
I guess if you're the type who finds internet drama entertaining, you might be willing to drop five bucks on being involved in that kind of odd bureaucracy. I'm not really sure if I'm understanding you though, or if that's your intention.
The only thing you have said on it is this:
Which does not explain why it is an issue, it just explains why you, personally, don't like that.
I've noticed you make a (to me) pretty odd distinction between subjective and objective that I don't make. At least I don't make it as often. That's not necessarily a bad thing but it sometimes makes it hard for me to understand why you don't understand me (inception).
I have explained why it bothers me, and in explaining that, I have also explained why I think it's an issue. I do not think it's going to make the site rot and decay any time soon, but it is annoying to me, and I thus count it as "an issue". Does that make sense?
In saying that it's an issue, you imply that it's something that should be fixed. This isn't one of them, though; thus, I don't see how it's an issue.
Your first post on the matter:
It wasn't
There's enough of a difference there that the latter made me curious, for instance.
Well I would certainly like for it to stop or at least decrease in frequency. I don't think mod action is required if that's what you mean, it's more of a forum mentality problem I'd think.
I'm sorry if my word choice confused you, but I did not mean the same kind of issue you do, apparently.
edit: I've apparently confused at least two people and am now rather confused myself. This happens more than I'd like it to.
On the other hand, I wouldn't, as I rather enjoy the discussions most of the time.
So hopefully you begin to see the problem now.
I think the main problem is that I think of these things in different terms than most people do, not to sound pretentious.
In any case, this is specifically why I didn't want to go into it. In retrospect I probably shouldn't have said anything, but that's just me saying more than I actually need to again.
When I said that I thought it was an issue, I only meant that I thought was an issue. I don't think problems like this can really be qualified on any objective level, so I tend to use objective language interchangeably with subjective language in cases like this. I realize that I probably shouldn't, but it didn't occur to me at the time.
So, to clear things up, I'm not trying to begrudge anyone their particular posting styles or what have you, they're simply things that I find somewhat annoying about the site. Even then, they don't annoy me that much. I hope we can move on to talking about other things now, because I evidently ticked some people off without really meaning to here.
Nah, it takes a little more than this to tick me off. I was genuinely curious, but I see that the problem was just that you used objective language in a forum full of pedants. :P
I have problems making myself understood. I used to get pissed at people for not understanding me but I think I've mellowed out at least a bit in more recent times.
In my defense, it seems to run in the family. My mom does it and my cousin is way, way worse about it than either of us.