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Comments
I think it's useless to try to define fun. If someone derives enjoyment from playing it, that's all that counts. And since at least count there were still hundreds of thousands of people playing it, I think we can safely assume that it's fun to them.
@Alex: Without going into too much depth I can say that is false. Diablo-likes, or at least Torchlight, are never reliant so much on random drops that the difficulty curve is based entirely around luck. The loot system is carefully balanced based around the player's relative strength at that point in the game, with quests and bosses guaranteed to give you items that are "x" good at "y" point in the game. Sure, you can get an orange tier item that will last you longer than usual, but it's never so much so that the difficulty is trivialized. This is also backed up with the skill system, which combined makes it hard to gimp yourself (outside higher difficulties, but that's a different story).
In that sense, it's not all that different from a lot of other RPGs, just that the interval you get loot is much, much, shorter.
guys
are you seriously going to debate what's fun
^No, what I think they're getting at is that fun doesn't necessarily mean good.
Yeah, but the thing is that it's hard to use "fun" as a hard and fast characteristic related to quality if only because there's no real hard and fast way to nail down what's fun.
Also, I think you got it the other way around. You can be engaged without having fun, but if you're having fun, it's because you're engaged.
Not necessarily. Disengaging as a means of relaxation can be quite fun.
There's a term for that, and seven minutes ago I would have remembered it, but it's after 1 AM now.
Kind of?
The term "fun" is too nebulous to have any real meaning. But we can measure different kinds of engagement in the knowledge that different kinds of engagement appeal to different audiences. So a game based upon discovery (and not necessarily in a geographical sense) can always be said to aimed at players that find engagement in discovery. So we can approximate "fun" by splitting engagement into different types.
Right, but the sales for books like Eragon and Twilight were similarly high amongst their target demographics. We can safely presume that their audiences enjoyed those books just fine, but that doesn't immunise them against criticism -- and nor should high sales immunise gameplay systems. And while I don't intend on defining what is fun for someone else (outside of generalised gameplay experience demographics), I think it's also worth investigating the difference between compulsion and engagement, because both types of experience could be defined as "fun".
Well, yes. I'm not saying you can't criticize it.
I'm saying that they succeeded at their intended goal- they wanted to make it fun for people so they'd keep playing. And they succeeded.
Is it actually a good thing? Well, no. However, it's still successful at what it wanted to be successful at.
I dunno, I wouldn't define that as "fun" but only because "fun" seems to be about taking an active role. I think what you mean is simply enjoyment. Like how you enjoy sleeping or not doing anything or whatever
Is there even a particularly meaningful difference here?
Yes. Would you say sleeping is fun?
ETA: I originally got rid of that but whatever, there were replies.
I would classify sleeping as fun.
The way I think about this kind of thing is that there's a difference between what is "pleasurable" and what is "engaging". "Fun" might be where "pleasurable" and "engaging" meet, whereas something that's only "engaging" might be researching a topic of interest. It might not elicit a pleasurable response, but it holds interest and begs for deeper consideration, generating engagement.
Yeah, I dunno, this might be too idiosyncratic to be worth discussing (From this angle, anyway).
I'm too unconscious to tell if it's a fun or horrible experience. Sort of like being dead, only less permanent.
guys
do the webbies have an award for "most pedantic forum?"
no but we all know which website would bet that award
^ "Get"! Jeez, are you an idiot or something?!
^The exclamation point goes inside the quotation marks, you know .
Does the quote include the exclamation point, though?
TENSO
^Th e exclamatio n poin t goe s insid e th e quotatio n marks , yo u know .
Also:
@glennmagusharvey:
yes butmachinae supremacy
The sale ends in less than an hour, if there's anything you want that hasn't been on sale yet. Best get it now.
Sleeping Dogs and all the DLC glitched to 91% for a few minutes. First time I've managed to take advantage of a Steam price glitched.
Well, the sale is officially over. Time to post your e-peens hauls.
GOG.com:
FTL
Nothing. Probably could've picked up Civ V, but I have doubts of my computer's ability to run it and I would've gone for GOTY+G&K, which wouldn't have left me with much money.
Also a Game of Thrones DLC thing that someone gifted to me even though I have no use for it, after someone gifted it to him even though he had no use for it.
Reposting from TVTF:
During the combined sales seasons from pre-Halloween to New Year's Day, I spent nearly $100. About $10 was spent during the Halloween season (Oct 27 to Nov 1), about $23 during the Thanksgiving season (Nov 22 to 26), and about $50 during the Christmas/NYD season (Dec 20 to Jan 4).
Of these $100, about $50 was gifts that have been or will be given to others. I also received about $25 worth of gifts from others (not counted in my spending total).
About $55 was spent on Steam games (including gifts to others, not including gifts from others, not including Steam keys from non-Steam sources). About half a dollar was regained via the Steam market.
About $11 was spent on Groupees bundles. About $11 was spent on Bundle-in-a-Box bundles. About $12.50 was spent at Playism. About $3 was gifted to me via GOG.com. About $16 was spent or gifted to me in Indie Royale bundles.
The most expensive single or inseparable-compound item was a Portal 2 two-pack (via Steam, one gifted of course) at $8.74. The most expensive single item was worth $4.99, a tie between Ys: Origin (via Steam, a gift) and Half-Minute Hero (via Playism, for myself). The bundle containing the greatest number of complete (non-beta) games was the Groupees Build a Greenlight Bundle, containing 11 complete games (I think, plus 3 beta and 1 unreleased) for $5.74, and the greatest number of games per unit money is Bundle-in-a-Box Eclectic Bundle, with 9 games for about $3 (I paid a little over $3.50).
In addition, I got Metro 2033 and three Dungeon Defenders DLC packs for free.
From the amount I spent on myself and from gifts and other free items I received, I acquired about 45 games and 7 DLC packs.