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"Nintendo needs to stop doing rehashes."

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Comments

  • edited 2012-06-02 13:14:53
    Kichigai birthday!!

    ^^^^^


    >Portal 2


    >People saying it is the best FPS


    I'm no kidding, this is the first time I've seen anyone saying that.


    Also I agree with DYRE, Portal is a puzzle game first and a FPS second

  • Definitely not gay.

    ^ You're still considering it an FPS. Dyre is arguing that it isn't an FPS at all.

  • Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.

    Eelektross, I thought you wanted people to stop bringing that up.

  • You can change. You can.

    Have you not played Portal?



    I'm with DYRE in that I don't think of Portal as an FPS, much like I don't think of, say, MGS4 and Uncharted as games in the same genre just because they have similar interfaces.

  • edited 2012-06-02 13:21:15
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!

    It is an FPS; my point is more that FPS shouldn't be a genre any more than black and white should be a film genre. Most videogame genres are defined pretty much entirely by interface, which is really silly.

  • Give us fire! Give us ruin! Give us our glory!

    Then what about, say, Deus Ex? Which is far more FPS than RPG. Or Metroid Prime, which is pretty much a straight-up FPS with an exploration focus?


    Really, people ignoring the diversity within FPSes really annoy me.

  • Definitely not gay.

    Here's how I define an FPS:


    is first-person


    has shooting



     
    Eelektross, I thought you wanted people to stop bringing that up.



     I don't find it very serious anymore.

  • edited 2012-06-02 13:55:00
    You can change. You can.

    I feel that it's obvious by now I really didn't back down from the discussion. :p

  • edited 2012-06-02 13:26:30
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.

    ^^ Then I would like it if you'd stop bringing it up.


    I'm not saying this in an official mod capacity, I'm saying it as just a user of the site who doesn't really want to keep hearing about it.

  • edited 2012-06-02 13:27:53

    Portal really doesn't even have shooting though, except in a ridiculously superficial way.  I mean... is Narbacular Drop (the indie game Portal was seemingly based on) an FPS?  It's mechanically identical to Portal (well, there are some differences, but it's close enough), just you're not holding something gun-shaped and there's no projectile when you create a portal.

  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!

    It's mechanically identical to Portal



    Well, videogame genres are currently defined entirely based on mechanics, so that would make it fall under the same genre as Portal, Call of Duty, Deus Ex and Metroid Prime. And no, that doesn't make any sense, but it's the definition currently in use.

  • He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.

    I think I argued this befere and I shal repeat it, it's rather cynical and biased to consider an FPS who's focus is not killing enemy soldiers in deathmatch configurations  not an FPS just because you like it, and you don't want to see it conflated with the "drivel".

  • edited 2012-06-02 13:34:06

    No, see, I'm saying Portal isn't an FPS because you don't actually shoot anything in it and it has absolutely nothing in common with other games that are considered FPSes except its interface.


    Also it's weird to assume that I don't like FPSes when I haven't said anything like that.

  • Definitely not gay.

    because you don't actually shoot anything in it



    So surfaces don't count as a thing now?

  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!

    it has absolutely nothing in common with other games that are considered FPSes except its interface



    Exactly. That's why FPS shouldn't be considered a genre. I mean, it's silly to lump Portal and Call of Duty into one genre, then say that if Call of Duty had a camera two feet behind where it is now, it would be an entirely different genre.

  • edited 2012-06-02 13:38:33
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.

    So walls aren't a thing? And neither cute voiced turrets?



    Exactly. That's why FPS shouldn't be considered a genre. I mean, it's silly to lump Portal and Call of Duty into one genre, then say that if Call of Duty had a camera two feet behind where it is now, it would be an entirely different genre.



    One is puzzle solving shooter and the other is military shooter...I see no problem with those categories. Entirely different? Ha, it would be a third person shooter, same difference.

  • You can change. You can.

    The thing is, combat in Portal is hardly combat in the same way that you combat in Halo or Call of Duty. It's a puzzle where you can die.

  • edited 2012-06-02 13:42:15
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.

    FPS says nothing about combat. First Person says nothing about combat, and neither Shooter. Your expectations about shooters mean nothing.

  • edited 2012-06-02 13:42:57
    You can change. You can.

    Shooter doesn't say anything at all about combat to you? Seriously?


    ETA: Honestly, I'm with INUH in that the whole concept of genre is way too broad in videogames. I mean, really, if discussions like this happen, then you should revise your system of classification in the first place.

  • Definitely not gay.

    Shooter can just as easily mean shooting a surface or an object as it can shooting an opponent's head, you know.

  • He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.

    Shooter doesn't say anything at all about combat to you? Seriously?



    A shooting range says anything about combat to you?



    ETA: Honestly, I'm with INUH in that the whole concept of genre is way too broad in videogames. I mean, really, if discussions like this happen, then you should revise your system of classification in the first place.



    Sure, didn't we have a similar discussion about the mecha genre as well?

  • edited 2012-06-02 13:50:09
    You can change. You can.

    Shooter can just as easily mean shooting a surface or an object as it can shooting an opponent's head, you know.



    OK, but see, here's where my issue with the classification comes in the first place: the similarities are way too superficial in the first place. 


    Puns aside, think of it this way. If shooting with a first person interface was pretty much the making of a genre, then by that logic, Scooby Doo is a noir story by virtue of being a mystery story. 


    Notice the issue now?



    A shooting range says anything about combat to you?



    It's practice for the use of guns in combat, usually. Either way, I can't think of any game that was solely about practicing in a shooting range



    Sure, didn't we have a similar discussion about the mecha genre as well?



    Yep and I think the issue is that a lot of genres have really vague qualifications. Specially in geek niche media because it's not often discussed as, say, film or literature.

  • Definitely not gay.

    I don't think the noir genre is as broad as the FPS genre

  • edited 2012-06-02 13:52:39
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.

    Puns aside, think of it this way. If shooting with a first person interface was pretty much the making of a genre, then by that logic, Scooby Doo is a noir story by virtue of being a mystery story. 



    Noir came to existence way after the mystery story concept. But sure, let's say Scooby Doo is neo-noir, then!




    Seriously though, Noir is a subset of the mystery story, just as military combat is a subset of FPS.

  • edited 2012-06-02 13:54:32
    You can change. You can.

    I don't think the noir genre is as broad as the FPS genre



    Exactly. Genres aren't supposed to be as broad as FPS (Or RPG, or TPS are) because genres are supposed to be tools for the consumer to find games that fit their demand. 


    The reason why noir or western work as genres is because they have a variable set of characteristics that are easily identifiable and thus enable a possible viewer to vaguely have an idea of what they're getting into and seeing if they're interested in the first place.



    Noir came to existence way after the mystery story concept. But sure, let's say Scooby Doo is neo-noir, then!



    Yes, Noir is a variant of mystery stories, but my point is that not all mystery stories are noirish, much like all games with a first person interface are not necessarily within the range of what normally is defined a shooter, like Portal. Just because you shoot projectiles that turn into portals, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's a game that belongs in the same category that Halo, Call of Duty or Bioshock belong to.

  • Definitely not gay.

    Then I would like it if you'd stop bringing it up.



    Fair enough. I just wanted to loosen up, really.

  • He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.

    Yes, Noir is a variant of mystery stories, but my point is that not all mystery stories are noirish, much like all games with a first person interface are not necessarily within the range of what normally is defined a shooter, like Portal. Just because you shoot projectiles that turn into portals, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's a game that belongs in the same category that Halo, Call of Duty or Bioshock belong to.



    It belongs to a different category but that doesn't mean it's not an FPS, it means it is not a combat game.


    A game can be in more than one genre, can't it? To me genres are inclusive rather than exclusive, it tells me want it includes, not what it excludes. A noir story inludes mystery and detectives and macguffins and narration and stuff, FPS includes: shooting stuff, traversing in a first person interface and that's it. Expectations notwhistanding. Expecting something that is generally in a genre doesn't mean it has to be there.

  • You can change. You can.

    I need to get going so I won't give much of a proper response, but I want you to notice that your description of Noir includes four characteristics and could involve a few more if you wanted to try, whereas your description of FPS has only two characteristics and they are incredibly broad.

  • edited 2012-06-02 14:12:58
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.

    That's because Noir just means black, it's not a descriptive title, rather it's a bunch of categorizations that sprung from the french detective film of the forties. First person shooter is a descriptive title, it tells me what it is, rather that been just a name that came from an accident in history.

  • Champion of the Whales

    I thought Portal was a first person puzzle game....

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