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Comments
^^^^^
>Portal 2
>People saying it is the best FPS
I'm no kidding, this is the first time I've seen anyone saying that.
Also I agree with DYRE, Portal is a puzzle game first and a FPS second
^ You're still considering it an FPS. Dyre is arguing that it isn't an FPS at all.
Eelektross, I thought you wanted people to stop bringing that up.
I'm with DYRE in that I don't think of Portal as an FPS, much like I don't think of, say, MGS4 and Uncharted as games in the same genre just because they have similar interfaces.
It is an FPS; my point is more that FPS shouldn't be a genre any more than black and white should be a film genre. Most videogame genres are defined pretty much entirely by interface, which is really silly.
Then what about, say, Deus Ex? Which is far more FPS than RPG. Or Metroid Prime, which is pretty much a straight-up FPS with an exploration focus?
Really, people ignoring the diversity within FPSes really annoy me.
Here's how I define an FPS:
is first-person
has shooting
I don't find it very serious anymore.
I feel that it's obvious by now I really didn't back down from the discussion.
^^ Then I would like it if you'd stop bringing it up.
I'm not saying this in an official mod capacity, I'm saying it as just a user of the site who doesn't really want to keep hearing about it.
Portal really doesn't even have shooting though, except in a ridiculously superficial way. I mean... is Narbacular Drop (the indie game Portal was seemingly based on) an FPS? It's mechanically identical to Portal (well, there are some differences, but it's close enough), just you're not holding something gun-shaped and there's no projectile when you create a portal.
Well, videogame genres are currently defined entirely based on mechanics, so that would make it fall under the same genre as Portal, Call of Duty, Deus Ex and Metroid Prime. And no, that doesn't make any sense, but it's the definition currently in use.
I think I argued this befere and I shal repeat it, it's rather cynical and biased to consider an FPS who's focus is not killing enemy soldiers in deathmatch configurations not an FPS just because you like it, and you don't want to see it conflated with the "drivel".
No, see, I'm saying Portal isn't an FPS because you don't actually shoot anything in it and it has absolutely nothing in common with other games that are considered FPSes except its interface.
Also it's weird to assume that I don't like FPSes when I haven't said anything like that.
So surfaces don't count as a thing now?
Exactly. That's why FPS shouldn't be considered a genre. I mean, it's silly to lump Portal and Call of Duty into one genre, then say that if Call of Duty had a camera two feet behind where it is now, it would be an entirely different genre.
So walls aren't a thing? And neither cute voiced turrets?
One is puzzle solving shooter and the other is military shooter...I see no problem with those categories. Entirely different? Ha, it would be a third person shooter, same difference.
The thing is, combat in Portal is hardly combat in the same way that you combat in Halo or Call of Duty. It's a puzzle where you can die.
FPS says nothing about combat. First Person says nothing about combat, and neither Shooter. Your expectations about shooters mean nothing.
Shooter doesn't say anything at all about combat to you? Seriously?
ETA: Honestly, I'm with INUH in that the whole concept of genre is way too broad in videogames. I mean, really, if discussions like this happen, then you should revise your system of classification in the first place.
Shooter can just as easily mean shooting a surface or an object as it can shooting an opponent's head, you know.
A shooting range says anything about combat to you?
Sure, didn't we have a similar discussion about the mecha genre as well?
OK, but see, here's where my issue with the classification comes in the first place: the similarities are way too superficial in the first place.
Puns aside, think of it this way. If shooting with a first person interface was pretty much the making of a genre, then by that logic, Scooby Doo is a noir story by virtue of being a mystery story.
Notice the issue now?
It's practice for the use of guns in combat, usually. Either way, I can't think of any game that was solely about practicing in a shooting range
Yep and I think the issue is that a lot of genres have really vague qualifications. Specially in geek niche media because it's not often discussed as, say, film or literature.
I don't think the noir genre is as broad as the FPS genre
Noir came to existence way after the mystery story concept. But sure, let's say Scooby Doo is neo-noir, then!
Seriously though, Noir is a subset of the mystery story, just as military combat is a subset of FPS.
Exactly. Genres aren't supposed to be as broad as FPS (Or RPG, or TPS are) because genres are supposed to be tools for the consumer to find games that fit their demand.
The reason why noir or western work as genres is because they have a variable set of characteristics that are easily identifiable and thus enable a possible viewer to vaguely have an idea of what they're getting into and seeing if they're interested in the first place.
Yes, Noir is a variant of mystery stories, but my point is that not all mystery stories are noirish, much like all games with a first person interface are not necessarily within the range of what normally is defined a shooter, like Portal. Just because you shoot projectiles that turn into portals, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's a game that belongs in the same category that Halo, Call of Duty or Bioshock belong to.
Fair enough. I just wanted to loosen up, really.
It belongs to a different category but that doesn't mean it's not an FPS, it means it is not a combat game.
A game can be in more than one genre, can't it? To me genres are inclusive rather than exclusive, it tells me want it includes, not what it excludes. A noir story inludes mystery and detectives and macguffins and narration and stuff, FPS includes: shooting stuff, traversing in a first person interface and that's it. Expectations notwhistanding. Expecting something that is generally in a genre doesn't mean it has to be there.
I need to get going so I won't give much of a proper response, but I want you to notice that your description of Noir includes four characteristics and could involve a few more if you wanted to try, whereas your description of FPS has only two characteristics and they are incredibly broad.
That's because Noir just means black, it's not a descriptive title, rather it's a bunch of categorizations that sprung from the french detective film of the forties. First person shooter is a descriptive title, it tells me what it is, rather that been just a name that came from an accident in history.
I thought Portal was a first person puzzle game....