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Comments
^^ Why do you think I only just showed back up here?
Unfortunately, people who really need to do this are exactly those who won't take the advice if offered. It may be that we should be more prepared to close threads that are going downhill fast, more quickly.
I appreciate there were practical problems for INUH in acting here i.e. his lack of a decent internet connection.
So going over the last few pages I noticed continual, joking references to Chagen, and comparing Daven to Chagen. It was said to be just as bad as embracing pedophilia.
Why.
^ Check out the guy's Encyclopedia Dramatica page (under Chagen46).
tl;dr - Chagen had bizarre diaper-related fetishes, which he was eventually induced not to talk about, and was whiny, paranoid and self-obsessed, which he couldn't be stopped from talking about.
He was eventually perma-banned from here, having been previously banned from TVTropes for similar stuff. He's become shorthand here for "a really terrible poster."
I think he knows who Chagen is. I think he means, why was anyone saying that comparing him to Chagen was just as bad as accepting an unrepentant pedophile (which no one really did, and I don't remember anyone saying that the jokes were worse than his general conduct).
I don't think we should have saved him or whatever, but there is such a thing as a middle ground between fucking bullying the guy and "saved" him.
If INUH's right and I trust his judgment, then he definetly needed to get banned, but not because he was a pedophile.
^^ Because we should abstain from discriminating against people based on something they have no control over. As far as we know, Draven hasn't raped any children. That doesn't make his pedophilia "okay", but it does mean that he's not actually guilty of anything.
That would essentially be doing 1984's whole "thoughtcrime" thing.
Look, I don't want the guy talking about his fetishes or anything. If he broke the rules, then that's fine by me and he should have gone, but I sincerely don't believe in shunning out people based on their lack of mental stability.
Not getting your point here.
People are talking about "bullying" Draven without any actual evidence of anything past "Get therapy, stop bragging about being a pedophile, that's terrible"
1)Admit taboo fetish.
2)Make thread about yourself, take every response personal.
3)Do a 180 and apologize profusely and cheaply.
4)Rinse and repeat until people see it as a springboard to whine about the state of IJBM as a whole for hosting one problem poster."
"No, the only proper course now is to go full hipster, change your user title to exactly that and take a Pedobear avatar."
">> Otherkin forum
Lol"
"(This is all for determining your rating in Chagens)"
Yes, that's why people were calling each other out in it. These sentiments have already been expressed in the thread and chattered about.
So Chagen actually made his avatar a pedobear and complained about people calling him a pedophile? That's pretty
That post was rather jestful, though. As is the one about determining your Chagen rating. And the first one seems rather accurate; he off-handedly talked about how he was a pedophile, then tried to apologize or make up for it and downplay it, while simultaneously denying that it was an actual problem. The otherkin jab is rather mean, I'll admit.
I'm just grateful Draven got out before he became another tnu. That would've just been depressing.
Sorry, Country Pumpkin, you're not very good at being jestful, what with the perpetual sarcasm. Everything just sounds like it has some condescending double edge from you.
I probably don't want to know who that is (or how he caused Annebeeche to get messed up).
Suffice it to say Anne really put a lot of effort into trying to get him some help.
That's pretty sad.
Hopefully that person is better.
No, that was in response to Draven saying something like, "Well, it's not like my user title is 'Kid Fiddler' or anything."
But I pulled all those quotes because they were a bunch of jokes made at the guy's expense after he had already been pushed into a corner--which is bullying; even if the target was worse in the head than most bullying victims, it probably didn't do nuch good, and if the people who posted those types of things wanted to make jokes, they could have found some other venue, rather than making it their problem.
For the record, some tempbans might still come of this incident.
^ Hopefully. It's just a bit doubtful, given how long he's obsessed over the TVTropes-and-friends community at large.
That's a good point. Mocking somebody who's already been mocked quite enough (with unfunny jokes, to boot) isn't very nice. I'm pretty happy that he's gone, though.
Wow I missed a good conversation by the looks of it
The basic idea is that this comes down to us as well as him. Criticising him for being so comfortable with his pedophilia is something I'd both expect and condone, but there was no need to be aggressive about it or for so many to engage in mockery. We should be better than that.
There's also the fact that this kind of behaviour solves nothing in any case.
Can I have a summary considering how long this thread is?
Guy comes in, says he's a pedo, that he sees being such as just a character trait, he'd have sex with kids were it not legal, we chastise, then he says he'd seek therapy, and then we bully him and call him Nu-Chagen. We ban him for causing drama and then we start yelling at each other about whether the ban is worth it in the first place. Then we find out that it was according to the rules and then we yell at each other about whether our behaviour was the best.
> Draven refers to his pedophilia.
> A bit of an "err" reaction.
> Explains himself, but digs himself deeper by explaining how comfortable he is with it and how his life situation doesn't give him reason to change.
> Thread goes haywire.
> Draven gets banned for a bunch of stuff.
> A discussion is had.
Basically, the post-ban discussion centred around conduct, and what good conduct is when dealing with someone so disconnected -- for instance, someone who's comfortable with having a sexual deviancy affliction like pedophilia. The two general sides were:
Your call on where you stand.
ninjuan'd
Oh, that's all me. Those comments were much more aimed at mocking the situation and his ridiculous manner of responding than that they were meant as a personal assault, and I remember responding much the same way towards tnu and Chagen. The environment has probably changed since the time those dudes posted, so I guess I'll adapt to that.
...Kind of glad I missed that shitstorm then
I do that in like, 90% of cases, these days.
This. Confessing that you're a pedophile here on IJBM is not against the rules. However, it's against, like, every reasonable understanding of common sense, EVER.
...and I guess this is when the thread started being a discussion about pedophilia, rather than being about doing anything constructive about the pages that TVT is cutting.
...sigh.
Well, it actually makes sense. You have people using trolling Google about TV Tropes, causing Google to pull its ads, causing Fast Eddie to have to pony up tons of money in hosting costs and to have to appeal to Google again to reinstate ads, and such. So Eddie is just (very hamhandedly, it seems) trying to simply nip this sort of stupid shit in the bud.
Not a particularly good way to do this, but it is a simple way.
The big problem with this approach is that there are at least a good number of users who treat TV Tropes at not just an "it's okay if it's gone" website that they don't care much about, but as a serious web resource and/or community whose content and community they want to preserve, and actually care a lot about preserving.
Also, fuck responding to any of this whole derail about pedophilia. Fuck it all to hell.
Bringing Tnu and/or Chagen into this discussion was not advisable.
*intense facepalm*
No, but I'd expect your house to be haunted and I'd expect a legendary gentleman thief to be the one to successfully piece together the clues correctly to exorcise it.
Here's some popcorn. I think it might help.
Not just pedophilic, but works with explicit sexual content as a focus of the work.
N.B.: The set of pedophilic works and the set of works with explicit sexual content as a focus may have an intersection but are not the same.
This works, for certain definitions of "good".
...yeah, this was a pretty epic derail.
To be fair, fuck tallking about TV Tropes.
this, this, a million times this
Nothing good ever comes of it.