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What exactly is incorrect about my idea of freedom.

Tnu1138Tnu1138
edited 2011-06-27 03:27:19 in General
I noticed someone in another topic say "Tnu's Idea of "freedom"" in such aw ay to eimply that my idea is some how completely incorrect or off the wall. What am I missing?
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Comments

  • NyktosNyktos
    a little muffled
    I don't think your idea of what freedom is is problematic so much as your idealism about the whole idea.
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    and the idea of Utopian Socialism is less idealistic?
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    Still I wnat to hear what vacasama has to say.
  • NyktosNyktos
    edited 2011-06-27 03:36:39
    a little muffled
    and the idea of Utopian Socialism is less idealistic?
    Um. No? Utopian anything is overly idealistic, by definition. And I'm still not sure why you think I'm a socialist.
  • InsanityAddictInsanityAddict
    edited 2011-06-27 03:37:03
    Diet NEET

    Edit: Ninja'd.

    Utopias are per definition ideals to be strived for while checked by reality. If you don't suddenly have it here and now, it's not the end of the world, while you make it out as if it is.

  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    This is what gets me people say i'm too idealistic for my views on the free market but then they go spouting utopian socialism. Seems kind of confusing to me.
  • NyktosNyktos
    a little muffled
    Who does that?
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    well Generally what I get is "your a monster for not embracing socialism don't you relaize people will always suffer and your system is inherently evil?" As if they're saying that their system is some holy solution.
  • InsanityAddictInsanityAddict
    edited 2011-06-27 03:48:01
    Diet NEET

    Can we not go the persecution complex route? Any 100% pure political system is retarded, there's always compromise between different ideals.

  • glennmagusharveyglennmagusharvey
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    Tnu, people criticizing one idea does not mean that they advocate for its opposite.
  • BeholderessBeholderess
    edited 2011-06-27 11:32:31
    As far as this one can tell, you seem to have an idea of freedom that includes only freedom "from", not freedom "to". And for way too many, such freedom would only end  up a freedom to die or be confined to the lowest level of society forever. Your  freedom favours only the strong. For weak, it means nothing but words on the paper.

    Whether it is correct or not is not for this one to say. At least you have a coherent and non-contradictory idea, unlike this one.
  • IaculusIaculus
    The big problem is that you're operating in absolutes - anything less than total freedom is unacceptable to you, which probably won't be accomplished without some serious transhumanism (and perhaps not even then). You need to understand that there are degrees of freedom, and that a 'life without freedom' is not just your mum telling you to get off the Xbox because it's two in the morning.
  • ninjaclownninjaclown
    If someone tells you to get off the internet, are you being oppressed like some dictators oppress their people?
  • Wicked223Wicked223
    We Played Some Open Chords and Rejoiced, For the Earth Had Circled the Sun Yet Another Year
    Not in terms of scale or intensity, no.
  • ForzareForzare
    edited 2011-06-27 16:59:53
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.

  • MousaThe14MousaThe14
    edited 2011-06-27 21:02:17
    Writer, Artist, Obscure.
    Wow. That was rude. Thumped.
  • RedEyedAbyssRedEyedAbyss
    edited 2011-06-27 21:01:09

    Tnu, why do you keep making these threads if you're not going to consider other people's opinions at all?

    V Any possible contributions to these threads has already been spent. Hundreds of times. His is just the abridged version.

  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    mOUSA CAN YOU ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTE AND NOT MAKE SUCH A BROAD INSULT?
  • MousaThe14MousaThe14
    Writer, Artist, Obscure.
    Okay then, simple enough you are making generalizations that do not exist. Yes a lot of your views are unreasonable and if we cannot change it, that is fine, but believing that anyone not with you is 100% against you is silly. I mean really, "IF you're not pro freedom then you MUST be a Utopian socialist" is a strawman argument for the ages and it does not help anyone come to any sort of understanding. If you attempted to understand that middle grounds existed then you wouldn't look ridiculous all the time.
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    Middle grounds it doesn't make sense to let "a little bit" of tyranny6 in.
  • MousaThe14MousaThe14
    Writer, Artist, Obscure.
    And there you go again, assuming everything is a tyranny and everything must be 100%. It's as though reason is impossible to comprehend.
  • BobBob
    Je l'adore tyranny6.
  • BeholderessBeholderess
    There cannot be a "little bit" of tyranny, true. But anything short of total freedom is not the same as tyranny.

    Just how many people actually supporting  uncontrolled state intervention have you seen here?
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    plenty. if you don't have a limiting factor like my country is suppiosed to have (The Constitution) then the government can do anything they want.  It's not the abuse of power but the power to abuse. To steal form people and demand that they serve others for the "greater good". There is no such thing as positive liberty for in order to give it you have to take it from someone else.
  • NyktosNyktos
    a little muffled
    You can say the exact same thing about negative liberty. If everyone has the right to not be murdered, than nobody has the right to murder people.
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    You have a talent for injecting futility and hopelessness in to things Nyktos.
  • CrimsonCrimson
    Give us fire! Give us ruin! Give us our glory!
    >It's not the abuse of power but the power to abuse.

    This is exactly why complete Anarchy, something you think is "absolute freedom", does not work.
  • BeholderessBeholderess
    I said uncontrolled state  intervention.  Did anyone here say that state should  have the power to do whatever it ants and people just have to accept it? You seem to jump to such conclusion whenever anyone mentioned that the state should do anything at all, but it is your conclusion, not anything anyone actually stated.

    And again, your "freedom" seem to include the freedom of the weak to die, of corporations to exploit the poor an so on. For  the  most talented and determined  it might be  a freedom indeed. For the weak it would actually  be  a reduction of freedom from what they have  now.  Absolute freedom for select few, much reduced sum of freedoms for everyone else.
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    That doesn't add up. So the solution is to have the state take away freedoms in the name of "freedom" to take and seize property by force? To regulate and restrict people in to the ground?
  • BeholderessBeholderess
    Property is  important. But there are  more important freedoms than the freedom to keep all of one's property.

    What is your  freedom to someone who lacks  the means to use it?
This discussion has been closed.