Discussions involving Katana vs Western Swords

Hatter · 2011-06-08 18:58:04

That's it. I'm sick of all this "Katana" bullshit that's going on in the d20 system right now. Bastard Swords deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine Bastard Sword in Germany for 10,000 Euros (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my Bastard Sword.

European smiths spend years working on a single Bastard Sword and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest blades known to mankind.

Bastard Swords are thrice as sharp as Japanese swords and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a Daisho can cut through, a Bastard Sword can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a Bastard Sword could easily bisect a samurai wearing pieces of wood for armor with a simple horizontal slash.

Ever wonder why Japan never bothered conquering Medieval Europe? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Knights and their Bastard Swords of destruction. Even in World War II, Japanese soldiers targeted the men with the Bastard Swords first because their killing power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? Bastard Swords are simply the best sword that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the d20 system. Here is the stat block I propose for Bastard Swords:

(One-Handed Exotic Weapon) 1d12 Damage 19-20 x4 Crit +2 to hit and damage Counts as Masterwork

(Two-Handed Exotic Weapon) 2d10 Damage 17-20 x4 Crit +5 to hit and damage Counts as Masterwork

Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of Bastard Swords in real life, don't you think?

tl;dr = Bastard Swords need to do more damage in d20, see my new stat block.

ClockworkUniverse · 2011-06-08 19:23:10

Really, in terms of bladed weapons, I'd want a spade. In an open area, at least.

glennmagusharvey · 2011-06-08 19:24:23

> Games need more mace/axe protagonists. If I ever make a game from
scratch I resolve to have to protagonist specialize in a battleaxe and
have no freaking clue how to hold a sword.

It kinda bugs me that the Lord-class main characters in Fire Emblem start off with swords and end up fighting a bunch of dumb-muscle bandits in early chapters.

That said, at least Ephraim did change it around a bit and wield spears. Though you start off that game with Eirika.

glennmagusharvey · 2011-06-08 19:25:27

^^ Oh dude that thing is awesome. Seriously, watching a TV series version of Journey to the West got me all these fantastic ideas of like everyone getting martial arts abilities.

Yeah, just imagine that. Everyone having FF-style magic and Chinese-myth-style martial arts.

Hatter · 2011-06-08 19:25:57

Glaive master race reporting in. You dirty sword peasants are all the same.

EDIT: ^ You mean everyone would be a twelve-year-old girl who somehow causes more damage with her teddybear than a muscular guy with a broadsword?

MillerCross · 2011-06-08 19:28:06

We're talking range now? I'll just quote Aliens here, then:

glennmagusharvey · 2011-06-08 19:28:37

^ No, fuck the newer FF games. I'm talking about something along the lines of the Tactics or SNES games.

Hatter · 2011-06-08 19:30:14

The earliest Final Fantasy games were alright. Mainly because they were the closest the series ever got to an actual RPG, even if they were still just dungeon crawls.

Vorpy · 2011-06-08 19:31:14

Guisarmes are far better. They can ward off axe and sword strikes, rip weapons out of people's hands with the hook, impale horses with the spear tip, and rip into armor with the hull blade on the side.

Vivi · 2011-06-08 19:32:33

It would be cool if everyone on the planet was some kind of fighter.

Hatter · 2011-06-08 19:33:11

Okay, then, let's meet halfway. Partisans. Hooked daggers on sticks.

glennmagusharvey · 2011-06-08 19:33:22

But the coolest weapon from JttW was Pig Dude (Jiu Bat Gai)'s rake.

^^ Oh yes. That is precisely one of the premises of my first JRPG idea.

Bee · 2011-06-08 19:34:04

Ephraim was frigging badass. So was Hector. Fuck swords, those guys could clean out armies.

glennmagusharvey · 2011-06-08 19:53:40

> Fuck swords

Lyn and her Sol Katti would like to have a word with you.

┻━┻ ︵ヽ(`Д´）╯︵ ┻━┻ · 2011-06-08 20:00:01

Hector is a little too much better than Lyn in their own game.

I kind of get the impression from most media that katanas are quicker but more fragile and do less damage.

...what kind of media have you been watching

MadassAlex · 2011-06-08 21:10:31

What everyone ignores, equally, is the martial arts that form of the basis of these weapons' power.

I don't care how big or strong you are. A sword of any kind isn't going to be much good to you if you don't know how to properly control it, and it's going to be worse if other people who can control it are in the vicinity. A sword does not do the work for you; it's a steel weapon that augments your offensive abilities.

For the record, there are Western equivalents to kenjutsu. The most well-known (although still highly obscure) is Liechtenauer's Bloßfechten, which is the art of fighting unarmoured or lightly armoured adversaries using a longsword. The Germans at the time of the Holy Roman Empire were considered both master swordsmiths and swordsmen, but the Italians, Spanish, Scottish and English (at the very least) all had their own advanced martial arts based on the sword as well. We haven't found evidence of French, Irish or Welsh texts, but I'd say that what we have found already implies that the concept of a standardised, national martial art was in use and widespread in Europe.

Nova · 2011-06-08 21:13:18

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=hynl6097tfdoyl0bi770hf0h&page=21#508

MillerCross · 2011-06-08 21:17:04

I still believe guns are better.

You all needed to know this.

Nova · 2011-06-08 21:18:09

Guns are a lot more powerful, but suffer due to requiring ammunition.

ClockworkUniverse · 2011-06-08 21:20:11

While we're at it, bows (and crossbows, for that matter) are more powerful than many guns in terms of kinetic energy, but are worse in terms of ammunition carryability, rate of fire and causing blood loss.

MillerCross · 2011-06-08 21:20:12

Which is why you always an extra magazine with you.

And if you don't, you can totally find bullets in random barrels you find. Just like in videogames. :P

^ Depends on the size of the barrel of the gun, as well as the tension of the string of the bow. If they are proportional, then yes, you're right. But a snub nosed revolver shot is indeed more powerful than a badly tensed string.

Nova · 2011-06-08 21:21:40

As much as I'd love to stay and debate, school now. tata.

MillerCross · 2011-06-08 21:22:38

See ya, kitty.

┻━┻ ︵ヽ(`Д´）╯︵ ┻━┻ · 2011-06-08 21:23:15

You sure about the blood loss part?

Nova · 2011-06-08 21:23:21

Not badly-tensed. "Low tensile".

ClockworkUniverse · 2011-06-08 21:24:15

@Juan:Well, I did try to phrase it as a general comparison rather than an absolute.

And yeah, guns are better in almost every other way, so it doesn't really balance it out on its own.

@Edmania:Yeah, arrows tend to plug up wounds.

Vivi · 2011-06-08 21:26:06

This thread needs moar obscure weapons.

MillerCross · 2011-06-08 21:29:56

Not badly-tensed. "Low tensile".

Thanks. I felt that phrase was too...verbal. :P

wannabeotaking · 2011-06-08 21:36:23

I feel like the knife is a really practical weapon. You can throw it, conceal it easily, and they are everywhere.

GLORIOUSLeader · 2011-06-08 21:38:08

Who here has brought a katana to a knife fight?

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