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Comments
He isn't. Link is the spirit of the Hero reincarnated over and over again.
I guess that's a valid interpretation.
The Hyrule Historia was supervised and edited by Eiji Aonuma, so.
As an aside, a quote from Miyamoto. "I said the name Link came from his role as a connector, but Link is you, the player.[...]Even though Ganon is defeated time and time again, he is evil incarnate and will come back time and time again, with a vengeance. Each time, when the world is blanketed in evil, a young boy and girl will be born. Link's adventures will go on for as long as you continue to love his world."
^ Already said that...
If Link had any characterisation beyond being King Arthur and also Robin Hood, I'd have a position from which to debate. He's such an empty vessel of a character, though, that saying he's the same character in every game is entirely valid from the point of view of literary criticism. Whether there's a heroic spirit that keeps being reincarnated or Link is simply a series of aesthetically connected chosen ones is up to interpretation, too.
If you use the timeline theory, which I don't.
I recall something about there being a foreword or disclaimer that marked it as a work of interpretation, although I don't know that to be sure. Counter to that, as well, there's a bunch of quotes out there by Miyamoto that shows just how much care was taken to ensure that the Zelda games were consistent.
That is, none at all, except between obviously linked examples like Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask.
I maintain that if any hard continuity was desired for the Zelda series, they'd release Zelda games in a reasonable and logical narrative order. In terms of the current series, with respect towards the timeline hypothesis, the first game in the story was the most recently released. Its sequel was released over fifteen years ago, and the last game was the sequel to the first game that was released, the first game being the last chapter of the story that concerns the main villain. In between all those points, we have what is pretty much the same repeated story, with iterations placed differently on a timeline and the games released in random order with respect to that.
The reasonable conclusion is that no-one who currently works for Nintendo of Japan, or who has worked for Nintendo on the Zelda series, gives half a damn about the continuity of the games. Except the new guys who worked on Skyward Sword, but Skyward Sword was also a mess in a lot of ways.
It isn't. It says quite explicitly in the Hyrule Historia that Link is the spirit of the Hero, who is continuously being reincarnated.
Is anyone here well-versed on the concept of reincarnation enough to actually explain it for those with less experience with it?
Because reincarnation or not, Link as a girl would probably still work.
I know the Avatar can be reincarnated as a girl...
Butt that's about it.
I don't see any reason why, in the absence of any other explanation than "Link gets reincarnated", a boy can't be later reincarnated as a girl.
Honestly, "Link as a girl"? Could work. Especially given that he's pretty feminine-looking already.
Also, the fanboy rage would be delicious.
Well, it'd work in more ways than that. Link isn't exactly portrayed as a muscular person, he mostly solves any problems he comes across through wit or clever tool use. Anything too physically strong for him to lift is just handwaved as he gets a strength bracelet or magic item. The only "hiccup" I could possibly see down the line is the sword-fighting, and that's why I asked Alex about that.
Does it? I don't know. As far as I know, Hyrule Historia still doesn't have an official English translation, so things we know about it are fan translations or by the word of people who can read Japanese. Assuming (with good reason) that those groups of people are being honest about what they read in the Historia, there's a huge amount of opportunity for mistranslation, misunderstanding and the mutation of passed data.
So it stands to reason that the only people here who could have read the Historia directly know the Japanese language (which is, like, a tiny fraction of us), with the rest of us drawing our ideas of its content from second-hand sources. Like I said, I remember a disclaimer that says that it's a work of interpretation and not entirely official -- and I could be wrong, too. But it's also the kind of thing someone invested in the timeline theory would be liable to forget or ignore, and the kind of thing that's easily skimmed over, even with the best of intentions. And in the case of translations, it might seem so minor as to go untranslated.
But I think the bottom line here is that the timeline hypothesis makes no sense from a storytelling perspective and reeks of retcon, with Nintendo having realised that many gamers are ravenously hungry for narrative consistency in their media. No-one begins such a simple story with the intention of telling it out of order, or with multiple timelines. The most reasonable and most naturally human explanation of why Zelda's story is so convoluted is that it wasn't intended to be a consistent story, because the current paradigm of fictional settings being treated as differently existing realities is very recent, and Nintendo only needed The Legend of Zelda (the original game) to be consistent within itself.
In fact, no sequels were initially intended, and the story (or what story there was) was considered complete in and of itself. In addition, the first design drafts for The Legend of Zelda are actually under a name like "Mario Adventure Game". So the original Zelda game was only really made into its own IP well after its core elements had been laid out, it was never intended to be a series of games in its own right, and going by the timeline theory, the sequence of events in the setting and the release dates for the games have no consistency or reasonable link.
Nintendo's nod towards the timeline shenanigans, if it's canon, is pretty openly a response to fan demand rather than internal creative intention. That said, I'm completely happy for people to hold to the timeline hypothesis if they enjoy and like it, but I think many are seeking evidence of consistency where, clearly, none exists, or did not exist until very recently. The mental gymnastics required to make the timeline theory work are excessive, and I severely doubt Nintendo ever wanted a series of games marketed primarily towards children to have two timelines that could only ever be figured out via timeloop shenanigans stemming from one game.
But I think moviebob says it better than I do.
In my experience, there's no difference in skill or effectiveness with a sword when comparing men and women. Men being on average stronger is a minute advantage, but not applicable. I think. As far as I know, there isn't a significant strength difference between men and women who partake in strength training. And swinging a sword around, by itself, is going to make one stronger and fitter.
Historically speaking, the first known medieval manuscript depicts a woman being trained to fight with a sword.
except
you know
the one published back in 2011 by Dark Horse
There's an afterword by the devs that basically says this.
Three.
Aonuma: "Because the games were developed in such a manner, it could be said that Zelda's story lines were afterthoughts. As a result, I feel that even the story of "The Legend Begins" in Skyward Sword was something that simply came about by chance.
Flipping through the pages of "The History of Hyrule", you may even find a few inconsistencies. However, peoples such as the Mogma tribe and items such as the Beetle that appear in Skyward Sword may show up again in other eras. Thus, it is my hope that the fans will be broad minded enough to take into consideration that this is simply how Zelda is made."
I didn't know about the official translation. Well, guess I better eat my foot.
Good to know that there's some development stuff in the book, too.
Also, I really recommend watching the video I linked. It eventually comes around to Zelda specifically, but spends most of its running time discussing the basis of mythology and psychological theory, with some speculation concerning the culture of continuity.
Then again, Game Overthinker expressed a positive opinion about Metroid Other M, even if his viewpoint and how he came to it were understandable and completely logical, It's not overthinking if you're not gonna address the problems Other M had. I huff and puff and will stop derailing.
The thing about Hyrule Historia is that Zelda didn't actually have a canon until Nintendo realized that there was sufficient demand for a timeline that they could sell one. I wouldn't be suprised if one of the next two or three Zelda games completely invalidates it.
Nintendo said quite a few times before the release of the Hyrule Historia that they had an internal timeline.
No, actually, their official position as of a year before it was released was that they had no internal timeline and never would.
Of course, before that they'd said that there was...basically they flip-flopped about it, and if there was a timeline, it changed radically and frequently.
>"So what you're saying is that all Zelda games are essentially the same story, gameplay, structure, music, etc., recycled again and again with both constant and changing variables?"
Fixed that for you.
In b4 Yahtzee plz.
The lesbian subtext would be with Shiek and Ganon, of course
More stuff not relevant at all:
Okay, well then Ganondorf. The only female in a race of males.
Are they bishounen or bara?