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Comments
Hopeless, not suicidal. They didn't go in with no expectations of ever coming back out.
'Hopeless' also works (It's a pretty loose description. The Dozen died in the original story except for Wladislaw and their military handler, but in most cases where the story is imitated or homaged or whatever, most of the characters if not all survive, like in Inglorious Basterds)
I thought mass effect was reliant on your choices beforehand to determine how well it went. I'd imagine it wasn't too hard to get a decent amount of survivors though.
Well, more like their survival is not necessarily canon, really. That's why I removed it.
The characters in that case weren't former criminals. Well, Fate was, but they hadn't cut a deal with her to get her to do it or anything. It was just a case of the protagonists (one a criminal who had issues with her mother, one a girl with a desire to do something with her life) tackling hopeless odds to prevent the world being destroyed.
I can think of several times when criminals are pardoned in exchange for working for the TSAB, but in each case, it's treated as a redemption thing, and it's never tied to them agreeing to take on hopeless suicide missions.
Well, if they're villains trying to be heroes, it's still Shojo Thunderbolts.
I'm getting kinda tired, hard to explain.
By the time their heroism rolls around, they're not villains. It's that common redemption thing; the character realizes that they were being a fuckwit, turns around, begs forgiveness, works with the heroes for a while, then eventually becomes one of the heroes.
Well, yeah, that's my point. In Thunderbolts, you got a bunch of guys who were villains but they look for redemption and by the end of their character arcs, they aren't really villains anymore.
It has an interesting magic system. That and Spacebattles' obsession with it are the only reason I have any idea about the plot. I gave the first season a shot and couldn't bring myself to care about Fate or Nanoha. Fate especially; I found her really irritating for some reason. Shit, I knew I had to stop watching when I was kinda *glad* to see a washed-up crackwhore torture a tiny girl.
Arf is the best character in the first season tbh.
All I know is I'm kinda sick of seeing arguments over whether Nanoha or Madoka is better.
Wait, aren't they trying to do two different things? One's Gundam-esque murky morality and awesome fight scenes and the other's about loneliness. How can you compare them when they aren't trying to tell the same type of story?
I have no idea, I've seen three episodes of Nanoha and not a thing of Madoka.
I just get annoyed when a large portion of my friends argue with each other about things I don't care about, honestly. =|
Because both have little girls who fight, and they're popular.
Not really, no. Certainly not so different that you can't compare them.
Yes.
One is taking the magical girl genre to extremes, in the worst sense of it; making the work as dark as it can get while still remaining logically consistent. This one speaks about hope and despair, featuring broken characters, a morality system that is designed to break down its followers, and much of the point of the story is about not giving in to despair.
The other is a military-style magical girl story, where the point is that all sapient beings deserve to be treated humanely, even where they're not human. It features a very clear sort of grey morality, villains that can always strive for redemption, and people enduring situations without suffering overly much.
They're superficially similar- they both feature young girls, magic, some of the same character archetypes, devotion to the brighter characters in the settings- but they're not similar enough that you can draw meaningful comparisons between the two.
Please stop.
Perhaps you could try drawing meaningful comparisons between the shows, rather than reducing my post to a strawman argument, then.
Are you aware that you look....silly, when you do this "my opinions on anime are correct and yours are not, nyeh!" thing?
No one's saying things have to be Eragon and Star Wars, here. We're just saying, Madoka can be more constructively contrasted with something like Revolutionary Girl Utena - or John Dies At The End, now that I think of it.
You Sure Do Seem To Like John Dies At The End
[in fairness it may be a totally apt comparison, never read the thing]
(It's a bleak book with an underlying optimism that doesn't become fully clear until the end.
Also, dick jokes. Dick jokes everywhere.)
Huh. I haven't read that book in a while, but this comparison makes me want to reread it.
Ah, right.
Although it is very different from Madoka in the sense that there aren't any dick jokes in Madoka.
It's really not even a strawman argument.
Super Lazuli's friends argue about which show is better.
You are saying that there is absolutely no way that someone can do that because some of the themes they deal with are different.
Never mind the fact that they both target exactly the same audience and have similar character design and make use of the same general elements and have the same sort of action scenes and are both magical girl series that deviate from the norm by adding elements of other genres, etc....
That's far more than enough to justify comparing them, especially since really you don't even need anywhere near that much of a similarity. You can say one thing is better than another even if they're doing completely different things. It probably doesn't make much sense if you were comparing, say, a video game to a book, but since both of them are anime series that's really enough.
It has nothing to do with my opinions on anime, and everything to do with how discussions on the internet work. You can say one thing is better than another even if they have somewhat different objectives.
Is there any anime genre that hasn't gotten a popular "Taken to the logical extreme of despair and bleakness"
Not using the D word.
*shrug* OK, then.
I don't think that's really what Nova meant though.
You mean a Deconstruction in the Troper sense. I don't think you'll be misunderstood, afaik, no one here is an aspiring literature critic.
I don't care about being misunderstood. Everyone here knows what a Deconstruction is in the Troper sense. It's just an annoying word that brings up a lot of arguments.
Slice-of-life.
Sports.
Idols.
I don't find it such, but OK.
Well, it does bring up a lot of arguments (THAT'S NOT WHAT A DECONSTRUCTION IS and so on), I mean that I don't find it annoying.
Anyway.
It's Not My Fault I'm Not Popular!, also known as Losergirl-chan.
Isn't Idolmaster dark-ish? I may be remembering wrong since I've never seen it, and am only speaking from vague recollections here.
Slice-of-life would be...interesting. Going deep into the dark despair of the real world.
Idols would ALSO be fun.