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The new don't-panic thread for the TV Tropes pedo purge
When IJBM was removed from TV Tropes, we moved it over here. TV Tropes removed the don't-panic thread for the pedo purge after it devolved into people taking potshots at each other. Let's see if it can function more properly here.
So, quick summary: Google dropped its ads because the NaughtyTentacles page was NSFW. Fast Eddie took the opportunity to start purging various pages for "pedophilia." Simultaneously, Iaculus posted to ask whether Lolita would be purged, and I posted to say that I wasn't sure what the criteria were, since if they were taken literally, Lolita would be purged, and I knew that wouldn't happen.
So he purged Lolita. And Eiken. And 9 Songs. And Ken Park. And Black Bird. And the entire Hentai index, including Fate Stay Night.
We've already convinced him to restore Black Bird, and he's promised that Lolita will eventually be restored. The rest of it will be up to a council of Tropers yet to be appointed (none of them mods.) Every work to be considered will get its own thread in which to argue its restoration. The mods aren't tracking which pages they've cut, but Nocturna is compiling a running list.
This is to be a thread for level-headed discussion--okay, maybe with a bit of bitching, but no calling each other names. That's what got the original thread in Yack Fest purged. (My intention is not to import drama, but to try to talk this over with some of the same crowd as TV Tropes.)
Comments
With the exception of a marked few actual respectable works (which TVT was hardly the only site covering, and not exactly on the level of analysis they needed to be approached with anyway), my opinion is best summed up by
Getting rid of pedo-shit = Good.
Getting rid of genuine pieces of art like Lolita = Bad
Getting rid of (what I am assuming) is mostly a daft sci-fi/fantasy series (Fate/Stay or whatever) = Bad
.
I'm not a troper any more and not even a believer in that form of "analysis", but for what it's worth I go along with The Conductor.
Why the hell was the page that caused it all not behind the NSFW-wall not containing Google Ads in the first place? Unless I completely forgot how that ad system worked last time the ads were pulled.
I thought Google Ads were on the SFW pages and Amazon ads were on the NSFW pages.
What the hell happened to that arrangement?
It actually was behind the NSFW wall, and it did not have Google ads. Google didn't care. Either they didn't want that content on the same site as content that had Google ads, or they automatically dropped us without bothering to investigate the complaint.
They're legally obligated on behalf of their advertisers to act first before investigating.
Which is retarded, yes.
Getting rid of Ken Park = Meh. I've always hated Larry Clark
Getting rid of Lolita = Wow, dude. Just wow.
I don't want to spoil your fun, but the official announcement is that they'll restore Lolita, and whatever else there'd be acceptable, once they settle on the rules of what is acceptable. Make of that what you will, I'm not sure of possible interpretations.
It can sort of be summed up like this:
Getting pedoshit like KnJ deleted: Hurrah!
Getting a landmark novel like Lolita deleted: Excuse me, but this is taking it too far...
Someone's a dunce for putting a VN with sex scenes in the Hentai section?
Deleted that bit.
The dunce is Fast Eddie, for deleting F/sn's main page but not any of the periphery pages. I've become numb to debates over pedoshit and comparisons between genitalia and seafood* but Fast Eddie's stunning technical ineptness still pisses me off.
*yes, I know, this is actually Tsukihime.
only if you're metagaming.
the one or two of us?
Either way, I know it's temporary, but it's still dumb to go first after a legitimate work of art and then pretend to forget about the rest.
What's this? Another e-drama saga from tvtropes?
I did find it amusing when Fast Eddie found out about the Rape tropes. "We have rape tropes" "OMG, DELETE NOW!"
^ I think it was the second one. Are we allowed to link to the post(s) in question?
Juan's got a bit of a point there.
As a mod, I want to issue a pre-emptive warning about this thread: It is on thin ice regarding drama importation. While I would personally like to see this thread be an open-minded and free-speech source of information about the issues discussed within, please keep it civil and DO NOT use this thread to snipe at TV Tropes.
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I'm not happy about "pedoshit like KnJ" being deleted either. Especially since I'm probably never going to read/watch (is it even animated?) stuff like that, I'd really appreciate a page talking about the content that goes further than Wikipedia does in terms of interpretative/analysis information. As you know, Wikipedia is great for finding basic facts, but the fact that everything has to be documented elsewhere means that it's kinda very hard for it to document things like opinion trends and interpretations of the story and its details.
In fact, I can think of no other site where I might be guaranteed to find this information. Lots of people have commentary blogs, but I'd have to sift through them. Even sites like animenewsnetwork are more Wikipedia-like in providing easily-verified factual information and not much else.
And yes, promoting neutral POV, NOT positive POV, would really help.
Yes. As a TV series, and then a short OVA series and a few miscellaneous other OVAs released along with volumes of the manga.
In any case, I never found TV Tropes to be very informative to begin with, so I don't feel like them nuking a bunch of pages really makes it any less useful.
Oh, for me it's like this:
1. See name of random game/movie/tv series/book/etc. somewhere else; want more information
2. Look it up on Wikipedia, for basic info (such as author/creator, genre, and maybe critical reception)
3. Look it up on TV Tropes, for more detailed info (such as genre and subgenre, style of presentation, setting, and any other quirks), to produce a preliminary estimate of quality and/or expected enjoyment
Some people are actually trying to bring back KNJ. I proposed that it would be defensible if and only if it does with pedo fanservice what Funny Games does with torture porn, and at least one reader has proclaimed that yes, it does. (I've never read it, so I don't know.)
Oh, I should add: For those works that I don't plan to read/watch/hear/etc., TV Tropes is an EXCELLENT resource by which I can gain a basic understanding of the work and be able to understand and communicate with fans of the work.
>Lolita is red-lined
>I Spit On Your Grave is still up.
Eee-yup.
Even if it will eventually be restored supposedly, this is just far too knee-jerk of a reaction. Rather than nuking them, hot button fiction should be monitored since by and large only fans will edit it.
>TvTropes
>monitoring
Sometimes, I wonder what the right balance is between idealistic solutions and pragmatic solutions.
Perhaps nuke, followed by a watchdog on the page would be in order?
Not panicking, and to a point I agree with the motives behind the cuts. It just felt heavy-handed and unilateral with some not-so-offensive works (ie non-pedoglorifying/non-Pornwithoutplot) caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, but it's a good thing that the committee's going to be formed. Myself, I think it would be nice if the site can entirely phase out Adsense in favor of the cosmetics scheme that the forum's been discussing.