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what passes for a "genius" nowadays

edited 2011-08-30 18:01:22 in Media
no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
So I was at my mom's house and I watched an episode of House. That almost sounds like the lead-in to a bad joke, and maybe it is. So I watch the episode and its the typical, House nearly gets a patient killed before miraculously finding the cure. And I'm like "House isn't the medical genius he's supposed to be if he always has to nearly kill patients before saving them." Then my mom is like "but Edmond, that's how real doctors do things!" So I'm like "THEN HE'S NOT A GENIUS, HE'S JUST A DOCTOR, AND THERE'S NOTHING SPECIAL ABOUT HIM!" Not that I mind a show about a perfectly ordinary doctor, but don't sell me that House is a genius every five minutes and then have him not actually be a genius. Then again, television in general has rotted everybody's brain, so maybe he is a genius.
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Comments

  • ITT: Edmond slowly comes to the realization that intelligence isn't rigorously defined.
  • Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    Also, TV Genius =/= any kind of real genius
  • edited 2011-08-30 18:09:57
    I am Dr. Ned who is totally not Dr. Zed in disguise.
    >"House isn't the medical genius he's supposed to be if he always has to nearly kill patients before saving them."

    Then my mom is like "but Edmond, that's how real doctors do things!"

    *is about to comment but then remembers we are talking about US healthcare*

    Realistically though real doctors don't nearly kill their patient every day and since by and large western society has pretty good healthcare standards, House appears to perform worse than real doctors.

    You could make a point that everything he treats turns out to amazingly obscure so only his genius can cure them, however often he is just guessing and performing random experiments.

    Perhaps a doctor that took even longer doing detailed investigation rather than random experiments would be more successful?

    However it isn't really the point, drama is.
  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    Really, from the few episodes I've seen, I wouldn't even call him a regular doctor. He strikes me as pretty dumb.
  • edited 2011-08-30 18:18:43
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    ITT: Edmond slowly comes to the realization that intelligence isn't rigorously defined.


    That too. But to be honest, lately I haven't been impressed with the ideas of "intelligence" represented either in the House or other investigative cases, where they're mostly fuckwads who manage to get lucky most of the time, or else in the David Xanatos way where they make unbelievably complicated plots which only work because the story requires them to, nor in the Lit Crit way where "the story is about a murderous voodoo cult OMG ITS ASKING DEEP QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DARK SIDE OF RELIGION!"

    Call me crazy, but when I see "intelligence," the jocks and bullies I used to hate in school start to make more sense. When it comes down to it, physical strength and fitness are where it counts, and having practical smarts--IE the ability to respond optimally to layman, real-world situations--is a cherry on top of that. If you have the cherry but not the ice cream it goes with, then you're missing something vital. Hell, a lot of people do fine without the cherry.

    Of course then I watch a Fourth Doctor serial and start to wonder, but I imagine he's probably physically fit on top of being really smart so there you go.

    Really, from the few episodes I've seen, I wouldn't even call him a regular doctor. He strikes me as pretty dumb.


    He does.

    To be fair, I like the show House itself--I find his attitude refreshing on days where I'm really depressed (though, that's probably a really bad way to deal with it). But its also an example of why I'm usually so hard on American media--we have a way of really lowering our standards.

    Then again, as far back as whenever Mark Twain was alive we had "Tom Sawyer is clever because he can convince kids that painting a fence is fun," which isn't so much "Tom is clever" as "everyone else is really stupid." So I guess our standards have always been low.
  • edited 2011-08-30 18:28:52

    "which isn't so much "Tom is clever" as "everyone else is really stupid."

    That still qualifies. Part of cleverness is knowing how to pick your targets. *cough* Tea Party Movement *cough*

  • Most doctors don't have to deal with a different obscure, difficult to detect disease every week.
  • edited 2011-08-30 19:13:15
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    ^One episode I saw had him failing to diagnose Lyme disease because he dismissed it without checking for all the symptoms.
  • $80+ per session
    His assholeishness rubs off on his medical performance.
  • MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    I liked the show better when it was called Black Jack and I liked that better when it was called Sherlock Holmes.
  • «House appears to perform worse than real doctors.»
    Isn't the point of House that he only gets the cases that are really bizarre and don't have easy solutions?
  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    ^The Lyme disease episode I mentioned earlier indicates otherwise.
  • If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    When it comes down to it, physical strength and fitness are where it counts, and having practical smarts--IE the ability to respond optimally to layman, real-world situations--is a cherry on top of that. If you have the cherry but not the ice cream it goes with, then you're missing something vital. Hell, a lot of people do fine without the cherry.

    I don't think that's correct, no. Maybe for fields that require physical fitness, but for people involved in the sciences (like chemists, physicists, etc) I would definitely say that physical strength and fitness would be the cherry on top of the cake for them.

    And they are required, as they are the people who are advancing our world, by discovering new medicines, etc.
  • Psychical Strength is a required thing?

    Better call that Stephen Hawking Guy and tell him.
  • no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    I liked the show better when it was called Black Jack and I liked that better when it was called Sherlock Holmes.


    ... Dude, what? the House/Blackjack connection already rests on the fragile fact that both are doctors. The Blackjack/Holmes connection simply doesn't exist.
  • a little muffled
    The House/Holmes one certainly does, though.
  • MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Mostly a joke, but as far as character archetypes, story structure, and basic melodrama goes they all have quite a bit in common.
  • So there's a Japanese Sherlock Holmes then?

    Is there a Japanese Doctor Who by chance?
  • Dare-sensei?
  • MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    The Jojos? I guess they could be seen as different regeneration.
  • edited 2011-08-30 22:47:30
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    Mostly a joke, but as far as character archetypes, story structure, and basic melodrama goes they all have quite a bit in common.


    You've been on TV Tropes too long. No, they don't have that much in common.

    I don't think that's correct, no. Maybe for fields that require physical fitness, but for people involved in the sciences (like chemists, physicists, etc) I would definitely say that physical strength and fitness would be the cherry on top of the cake for them.


    If anything it would at least keep them healthy enough to perform their experiments.
  • MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    If you insist.
  • If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    If anything it would at least keep them healthy enough to perform their experiments.

    It would help, but like I said, that's definitely the cherry on the cake and not the first requirement for them.
  • It would help, but like I said, that's definitely the cherry on the cake and not the first requirement for them.
    Stephen Hawking springs to mind.
  • You can change. You can.
    House problem is that he's smart. But he has way too many personal issues, biases and a team of people who are biased and smart and as damaged as he is. 

    No, doctors don't act as him, and exceedingly clever ones less so, but TV!geniuses do. If you don't like that sort of thing, House is hardly the worse offender.
  • The Mentalist has a protagonist that literally will stretch your willing suspension of disbelief if it even holds up after the first seconds.
  • MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    I can enjoy House when I just take it as basic mystery/drama with the hospital backdropping. I disliked it when it went into soap opera.

    But yeah, Juan reminded me of how Chloe in Smallville is supposedly really smart by having a large vocabulary and knowing obscure facts, but lacks any actual analytical thinking whatsoever.
  • And I expected this thread to have devolved into a diatribe about what American popular entertainment says about the state of its society by now. Glad we avoided that.

  • Sorry to be Captain Obvious, but if House worked out what diseases his patients had easily and without several false starts, there'd be no programme; and if everyone didn't think he was a genius, they'd never put up with the way he behaves otherwise. It's a necessary suspension of disbelief.


    ^^ Actually, whenever anyone's been convinced I'm intelligent IRL, it's usually been because I knew obscure facts or used a big word, regardless of the quality of my thinking. That stuff does impress people.


     

  • MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Yeah, I realize that's what a lot of people think intelligence means but it's not what it actually. Reality is extremely unreal thanks to TV.
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