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"Zelda Just Keeps Getting Worse. But It Isn’t Beyond Saving"

edited 2012-02-16 13:34:11 in General


Or, Kotaku futilely fishing for hits. Really, this is just laughable. 

To give you an idea, he thinks the games got worse with OOT. It all goes downhill from there.



  • Sure are a lot of "Some say" responses for such an absolute sentiment.

  • One foot in front of the other, every day.

    I personally think Zelda peaked in overall game design with OoT. Not to say that some elements haven't been better since, but it came together as a cohesive whole best at that stage, I think.

    All the same, the "degradation" has been insignificant. The following games have all been excellent in their own right, and OoT benefited a lot from its early-3D-era context. Nintendo might never catch exactly the same magic again, but the Zelda games since have been awesome since anyway. 

    That said, I think Twilight Princess was better than Wind Waker, or even Skyward Sword so...

  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!

    I think every Zelda game (except the first two and maybe Link's Awakening) has a thing it does better than any of the others. As such, making an overall value judgment on which one's "the best" isn't really valid.

  • An article from a Gawker Media site makes an inflammatory statement in the title of an article? Clearly this is the lowest they've ever sunk.

  • edited 2012-02-16 14:18:46
    Diet NEET

    1/3 nostalgia without self-awareness, 1/3 casuals ruining mah hardcore game, 1/3 complaining about formula while preferring a different approach that is also formulaic. Cut and paste, rinse and repeat.

  • edited 2012-02-16 14:20:31
    I clench my fists and yell "anime" towards an uncaring, absent God, and swear solemnly to press my thumbs into Chocolate America's eyeballs until he is blinded, to directly emasculate sporting figures, to beat the shit out of tumblr users with baseball bats, and to quietly appreciate what Waylon Smithers being gay means to me.

    Sure are a lot of "Some say" responses for such an absolute sentiment.

    Some say that Kotaku is staffed by a bunch of brain-dead chimpanzees, while others say that it is staffed by howler monkeys.

  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!

    1/3 casuals ruining mah hardcore game

    Wait, seriously? I haven't actually read the article because I don't really want to give them a pageview, but there are people who think Zelda is a hardcore game?

  • One foot in front of the other, every day.

    Depends. Some definitions of "hardcore game" run along the lines of "well-established console or PC release". Essentially as a phrase to differentiate traditional video game products from newfangled app games. I can't say I agree with the terminology, but I think it'd be useful to have a phrase the differentiates the two, if a less severe one. 

  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!

    Admittedly, I can't say I've ever heard a use of the phrase "hardcore game" that didn't make me laugh :P

  • One foot in front of the other, every day.

    Also, reading the article now. 

    It's beyond horrible. 

    Essentially, he's criticising Zelda for the fact that his brain can pick up consistent patterns in a series. He wants it to be Demon's Souls -- brilliant and rewarding, but opaque and inaccessible. "Unfortunately", one of the prices you pay for accessibility is consistent patterns. 

    Thing is, the game industry couldn't survive if every game was Demon's Souls. It's a modern throwback to a lot of NES classics, including Ghosts & Goblins, Castlevania and even the original Legend of Zelda. It combines all these things really well, but for all the qualities it reclaims it updates, it retains the headscratching and inaccessible nature of those games from start to finish. 

  • No rainbow star
    Reminds me of how people keep saying Minecraft is going to the 'casual players', and that it needs survival mode but with invincible enemies that move fast, creepers that teleport, an inability to jump and place blocks at the same time (yes that was an actual suggestion), and so on
  • And I will continue to hate the hardcore gamer title.
  • One foot in front of the other, every day.

    Based on what I wrote above, I realised that Demon's Souls-like gameplay is one possible interpretation of an updated Castlevania. 

    I actually think that would be kind of awesome, and it even ties into the plodding, limited nature of the whip. Plus the very deliberate design and more tactical nature of the game. 

  • Eh... that kind of style isn't really what I look for in a game.

    I likes CV1 because it was simple yet challenging.
  • >patterns

    >writer confirmed for autist who can't deal with changes

  • One foot in front of the other, every day.

    ^^ Take out the arcane, unexplained character-building and weapon upgrade systems and the Souls games' gameplay is plenty simple. 

  • LaiLai
    edited 2012-02-16 14:56:18
    Still doesn't really have that spark that catches my interest. Not to mention the whole feel of the game itself doesn't agree with you.

    I should shut up before I end up as the "I don't like Dark Souls, Sam-I-Am!" guy or a dismissive asshole.
  • One foot in front of the other, every day.

    I'm not sure about feel. The Souls games induce a sense of tension and paranoia primarily through gameplay. The environments certainly aid that, but the essential core of the experience is in the way you play the game. I'd say this matches up to the original Castlevania excellently -- with limited technology, NES game designers never had the opportunity to express horror through visuals or sound alone. They had to express it through gameplay limitations and context. This is exactly what the Souls games do, and they do it famously. 

    Alternatively, watch this.


    I'm confused at this... ire isn't quite the right word for the attitude Kotaku's having at Zelda. It's like they're trying to convince people that it's dying despite Skyward Sword having sold 3.5 million units in less than a month and getting rave reviews.

    >That said, I think Twilight Princess was better than Wind Waker, or even Skyward Sword so...

    Really, the only thing that TP had over the other games was Midna.

  • BeeBee
    edited 2012-02-16 15:41:49

    but there are people who think Zelda is a hardcore game?

    Well it used to be pretty damn hardcore.


    ^ I preferred the TP art style over any of the other games by a longshot.  Also ridiculous magnet boots.


    Yeah, and you know what that game was? The worst fucking title in the series!

  • BeeBee
    edited 2012-02-16 15:47:05

    I never got why people thought that.  The only coherent argument I've actually heard that didn't apply to the entire rest of the series prior is "it's bad because it was modeled after OOT which was good."  And like, that's pretty low on the coherence meter.


    Besides, you can't possibly be saying it was worse than CDi and

  • TP up to Arbiter's Grounds is easily the best overworld usage of any Zelda game. Skyward Sword's overworld may be more puzzly, but it lacks character-driven set-pieces to make us care more.

  • edited 2012-02-16 15:48:51

    Except you know, not by Nintendo and only got to be made due to legal strangleholds. But yeah, presuming you want to admit them in I guess they're worse.

    Oh, I don't think TP is the worst game of the series. I think Zelda 2 is. TP isn't bad it's just a lot more dull than the others. Aside from Midna the world feels largely lifeless and the art style is ugly. No seriously, it's all muted dirty colors. It's not quite unpleasant to look at, but it does feel lifeless often except in the shadow world.

  • I'll give you the CDi games on that, but Zelda 2 was still iffy at best.

  • BeeBee
    edited 2012-02-16 15:57:07

    I didn't feel like TP was lifeless and ugly at all.  Dusty back country, yes, but not lifeless.  I dunno, maybe I don't mind as much because I grew up in places like that, but there's an understated beauty to it.  It doesn't have to hit you in the face with bright colors.

    It just means you have a more rough'n'tumble Link who wrestles cattle, wears a believable amount of armor, gets into Old West bow shootouts, sticks bombs on his arrows because why not?, and looks like something that'd stumble out of a bar before going out to save the world.

    And carries an enormous mechanical stone top for some reason.

  • MrWMrW
    edited 2012-02-16 16:00:12

    @Waltzy: Fi doesn't necessarily make Skyward Sword bad. :P

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