Apparently "derpy" is an ableist slur

Myrmidon

Nobody told me.

Forzare

Gelzo

Good old euphemism ladder.

"We can't call them idiots because they have mental problems, that's mean, so we'll call them mentally retarded, but calling them retarded is mean, so we'll call them challenged, but that's mean, so..."

DonZabu

Yes, The Man is always keeping us down with his political correctness that's enforced and blindly accepted everywhere at all times by everyone except you. /sarcasm

Who in particular said this? 'Cause I know I can count them on one hand.

Gelzo

^That first part wasn't directed at me, was it? There are well-documented cases of new euphemisms being introduced as soon as the last one becomes the normal expression of the meaning. I hardly think it's unfair to find that amusing.

DonZabu

Mainly it was directed at Myrmidon. But in any case, I think people are too easy to feel oppressed about this sort of thing, as if the Word Police are gonna break down your door the moment you say "poor" instead of "economically disadvantaged".

captainbrass

Gelzo speaks truth. I've heard "a bit special" being used to describe someone who was apparently either considered learning disabled or just very stupid by the person concerned. Over here, a "special school" was where mentally/physically handicapped kids used to go to be educated, so the euphemism has become an insult, and isn't used any more as a euphemism.

And I'd like to know who told Myrm "derpy" was ableist.

Hatter

I don't get what the difference is between viewing retardation as undesirable and viewing stupidity as undesirable. It isn't like a stupid person can somehow become smart; he's just stupid. He lacks the capacity to be smart. He may not have been born with an extra chromosome, but he's still constrained by biology.

Gelzo

We have the euphemism of "special" over here, too. And it's similarily been used insultingly.

I don't know whether or not that's common knowledge, I just figured it beared mentioning since you said "over here".

InsanityAddict

Some people don't really have the mental faculties to grasp why such expressions can be offensive. Ergo, calling them out on this behaviour is ableist.

MillerCross

I don't get what the difference is between viewing retardation as undesirable and viewing stupidity as undesirable. It isn't like a stupid person can somehow become smart; he's just stupid. He lacks the capacity to be smart. He may not have been born with an extra chromosome, but he's still constrained by biology.

Because someone born with Down's Syndrome doesn't have to fail at life and does have the possibility to be smart, provided he gets the right education.

Icalasari

Don, don't joke about the word police

I've seen them break into the house of someone who called somebody stupid once. I can never forget the screams. Oh dear god the screams...

That guy was never the same after that :<

Scythemantis

Guys, this debate is ALL OVER Tumblr. Get with the times.

There's a petition some people put together demanding an apology from the MLP staff for canonizing the name "derpy." They claim the concept of a "derp face" at all is hurtful to people who were born looking that way.

Apparently we can't acknowledge that a face is something that can look humorous, nor have any term to describe it without pissing someone off.

Look, just go on tumblr and search the tag "ableist." A BUNCH of ridiculous fucking shit will come up, including "otherkin" calling people ableist for making fun of them.

I fucking despise the word "ableist" now.

Icalasari

^ ...Excuse me I have to go slap an otherkin

Well, I need to find one first, then slap them

captainbrass

^^ This has got to be a joke...hasn't it?

LouieW

Scythemantis,

That logic makes as much sense to me as someone with a facial deformity getting upset about people making fun of a cartoon character's goofy looking face. That is, I think it is pretty silly.

Still, I do feel like that brings up somewhat of a legitimate point about fiction vs. reality. I mean, most people would probably say it is alright to laugh at fictional characters for having a "funny face" or being awkward and such, but I would like to think that most of the same people would have issues with heckling a person in real life because he/she looked "weird."

That is just a side note though and I definitely agree that terms like "ableist" can and do get misused.

Gelzo

I remember working at a fast food place where one of the other guys there had derp eyes. The guy seemed fine and didn't appear to have other problems, but it wasn't especially funny to me. It was just like one of those other situations where someone has a deformity; it's sort of interesting, but it'd be too awkward to ask about it, and I would never have teased him for it.

Derpy Hooves is pretty fucking funny, though. It's also worth mentioning that the other characters make similar expressions from time to time, and it's something I, at least, find inherently amusing.

DonZabu

>I fucking despise the word "ableist" now.

Wouldn't it be more productive to despise the idiots misusing the word?

MillerCross

>Despise

>Productive

Gelzo

I've only ever heard it being used poorly, not that I don't recognize that the definition describes what is a real problem in some cases.

Sort of like sexism, but worse.

Scythemantis

"Ableist" has practically overnight attained the same level of abuse and misuse in internet arguments as "Hypocrite" and "Nazi."

LouieW

Gelzo,

I've only ever heard it being used poorly, not that I don't recognize that the definition describes what is a real problem in some cases. Sort of like sexism, but worse.

I think that is a good point. I am guessing there is probably a better, more technical term for this, but I feel like the whole "boy who cried wolf" problem you alluded to can be pretty significant for stuff like racism, sexism, and I guess ableism too.  Basically, it seems like people overuse and misuse those kinds of words to such an extent that when someone actually does have a legitimate issue that calls for them, he or she may be easily dismissed as using hyperbole.

From what I can tell, that kind of problem can make it tougher to even talk about discrimination since people may be reluctant to make any kind of accusation of prejudice on the part of others. Of course, there are definitely times when people make such accusations lightly, so I guess I am saying I basically have no clue what to do, sorry about that.

Gelzo

I think it'd be more helpful if people stopped just labeling things as bigoted as though that alone solved the problem, and explained why they think whatever it is causes problems. I guess that already sort of happens, actually, but I get the sense that people often think something is harmful and argue against it because it isn't politically correct and it makes them feel uneasy, instead of arguing against it because they have sufficient evidence to show that it's harmful.

LouieW

Gelzo,

I tend to agree. Accusing someone of being racist, sexist, or ableist is really just one step from what I can tell. Dealing with the actual problem at hand is a bit more difficult than that, especially when it might mean articulating something that seems rather obvious to you. Plus, I think that explaining why any one of those views is harmful might be difficult for a lot of people, especially when the person they are explaining it to is set in his or her beliefs.

That being said, I think that the problems of political correctness tend to be exaggerated and that criticism of it can sometimes serve as cover for being rude or downright prejudiced.

Glowsquid

This has got to be a joke...hasn't it?

 

Poor CaptainBrass! Don't you know the facial expression of a cartoon horse is a very serious matter?: http://fromonesurvivortoanother.tumblr.com/post/16423096962/tw-ableism-rape-culture-common-arguments-on-the

 

Gelzo

Okay, I've been doing some thinking on the topic of prejudice, and I think I may have come up with something worth sharing. I think it's a matter of fact that things like race, age, sex, nationality, physical and metal ability, and wealth are things that can be shown to correlate to other traits, and I don't think that that's especially controversial to admit. For example, there's a tendency for the wealthier classes to be better educated, since education requires money, people tend to be self-interested, and the wealthy obviously control more of the money. On the other hand, you can't really say that any of these traits necessarily entail other traits unless you delve into the tautological. It's silly to say that there aren't statistical tendencies, though, but a lot of what people call bigotry is something I think could be viewed as ignorance or misinformation in terms of how accurately assumptions can be made with a piece of information. But really, none of us are omniscient about the nature of humanity, and probably most of us have formed some opinion from our experience about which groups tend more towards being or doing something, and we're likely to get some of that wrong. As when appraising any other aspect of reality, I really think the topic would be better served if people take the topic of the nature of identity with a more dispassionate and scientific approach. Being overly politically correct is also harmful to this cause. It seems to me that some people have a bias towards perceiving people as inherently equal; assuming that somehow the existence of something they see as a fault increases the likelihood of the existence of an unseen trait they would see as an advantage. The world doesn't have an RPG point assignment system, so this is something that is similarly divorced from reality and shouldn't be adhered to even if it's a more polite opinion to have. If there's an uncomfortable truth that the data we have suggests, we shouldn't ever ignore it as a possibility.

Ponicalica

I still need a word for people like Chagen who hate disabled people, though.

Gelzo

Mm... My bad for not bothering to account for people with emotionally charged opinions about certain groups. That's definitely relevant. Well, if someone hates or loves something, I don't think that necessarily means that you can blame that on their ignorance or on any choice that was really theirs, but I think the fact that they would hate a group at the very least suggests that they probably aren't quite aware that a great many traits that make a person outside that group likable can also be present in members inside the group. Furthermore, it's a conscious choice to admit hatred, and acting as though it isn't a problem is something I think could be fairly discouraged. It wouldn't quite be fair to think of someone as a jerk if they had negative feelings about people of another group but at the same time were not being self-absorbed enough to think that those negative feelings were an aspect of that group they can be faulted for rather than something internal to themself. Maybe it would be best if we had separate words for people who have made inaccurate judgements about groups, and people who actively hate those groups.

captainbrass

Gelzo - "ignorant" or, if you're being more polite, "ill-informed" would seem to cover the former. You do have to be careful about chucking "[whatever]-ism" around. It can shock people into reconsidering their unconscious prejudices, but it can also make them extremely defensive and unwilling to do so.

captainbrass

^^^^ I read some of that person's tumblr, and I don't know whether to laugh, cry or jump off the nearest bridge.

Nova

I am a Transgender, Pansexual, Asian American, Disabled, Appalachian, radical Feminist, major depressive, and eating-disordered poet from Berea, KY.

Christ, and I thought I was fucked up