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Gypsies/Roma/Cynti/etc.
I've known for quite a while that many Europeans have a large amount of animosity towards gypsies and people of ethnic Hungarian descent. I would appreciate if somebody from Europe could tell me: why is that? Is it because the rampant discrimination against them forces them to use shadier means of business practices, further fueling peoples' resentment towards them because they're viewed as people who just move around and steal a lot? That would be reminiscent of the way many people here in the United States feel the need to distinguish between "black people" and "n-words" by saying that the latter give the former a bad name, not understanding the fact that it's rampant institutionalized racism that forces many black people to live in economic disparity, not any choice from the black people themselves. If somebody could help me understand, I would very much appreciate it.
Comments
They actually prefer Roma or Cynti, instead of gypsies(or Travellers, if you're in Ireland).
Also, the perspective would differ from country to country(and from individual to individual, of course), from your regular scheduled impoverished minority problems, to sleazy politicians needing a scapegoat(especially prevalent in Italy), to the historical tradition in Eastern-European backwater regions.
In Holland we don't have 'em, but most of the ones I've seen in Italy and Ireland were particularly persistent beggars dragging their kids with them. Which are probably the bad apples, since those folks mostly keep to themselves anyway precisely because of the aforementioned discrimination.
Ah, people that have it worse than the Jews.
^^
Irish travellers are different to Roma, Irish travellers are of Irish ethnic origin and not related to Roma.
In the UK, Irish travellers are usually referred to as gypsies and Irish travellers are regarded pretty badly in general in the UK.
Roma tend to just get lumped under the general heading 'gypsy' and there is general anti 'gypsy' sentiment here.
Edit:
As to why..
I'd say that this has some truth in it, in that some travellers do resort to crime because of the discrimination but not all obviously.
Also probably some discrimination for them having a different culture and it being seen as 'primitive', as well as dislike due to them travelling an then setting up camp near towns who don't want them there (due to the image of the all being criminals and that there is an increase in crime from the bad apples that mars the community.)
Did you know that the word Gypsy comes from the misconception that the Roma where from Egypt?
The underlying theme in most anti-gypsy feeling is basically the idea that they're work-shy parasites who choose to subsist on crime/state benefits. In the UK there's also typically huge hostility to gypsy encampments from local home-owners, even if the gypsies actually own the land - no-one wants to live nearby.
There was always a lot of hostility, but I think the lifestyle had more of a place in a mostly rural society. Gypsies used to be able to support themselves by dealing in horses, seasonal agricultural work, working as travelling showpeople and so on. That's all gone and there's no particular place in society for a group of people living nomadically. And to be fair, I think most have now given that up.
The people I've met who've encountered gypsies have told me that the stereotypes are true, even when they were previously distrustful of stereotypes.
As someone who hasn't met any gypsies, I wouldn't know.
My Greek friend has told stories about the Romani stealing stuff like his bike. We all lol'd at him, though I don't really doubt it's true.
There's more outlandish stuff: the idea that they steal pets to cook them for food.
Gypsies in the Balkans (and the rest of Southern and Eastern Europe, too) do live quite a shoddy, anarchic life. Culturally, they're used to living in nomadic or semi-nomadic settlements, free and with no state control. They used to finance themselves through jobs that captainbrass listed, but like he also said, those professions are gone now. So, not willing to change their way of life, they continued living in cardboard settlements, supporting themselves by begging, salvaging, smuggling, stealing and pickpocketing. They are slowly integrating within the mainstream society and moving to legal jobs, though, but many still regain a notably carefree and undisciplined attitude.
I think another thing is because here in Cumbria, there is something called the Appleby horse show in which a lot of Travellers just turn up in a very small village and cause trouble.
^^ It may sound unfortunate, but that's a fact, really. I understand both - changing one's way of life can be very, very hard. I know, for example, that I'd have a lot of trouble adapting to the American way of life, which is much less different to the Balkan way of life than Gypsy way of life is to the general European way of life. As for the stealing part, I can definitely understand why they have to do it, since the only way for them to support themselves, without changing their way of life, is through illegal and semi-legal activities.
It all might sound strange if you're not from Europe and have never seen them, but they are... not really a part of mainstream society. Most of them aren't registered citizens, have no documents and pay no taxes. I'll just let this picture, taken in New Belgrade, speak instead of me.
That's disgusting.
What, they don't even have a trash pit to throw their shit?
Nope, unfortunately. I've seen animals living in better conditions.
The saddest thing is that the mayor of Belgrade actually offered the residents of several of these settlements to settle in an apartment block built specially to accomodate them, with some actually decent conditions, provided they register and take up some menial jobs offered to them. No, they didn't want to.
On the one hand their treatment by other peoples is horrible.
On the other hand, so is their refusal to adapt to modern customs, like getting jobs and not trying to rob you.
...I am surprised the Hitler sock puppet has not posted in here yet, considering this was one of the groups he hated almost as much as the Jewish
>Asks for explanation
>Gets multiple, most of which explain how stereotypes stem from bad apples being extrapolated, economic discrimination and historical circumstances. None of these explanations in any way excuse the systematic marginalization, save maybe for Milos if you read it in the wrong tone.
>Guise, guise, watch out for victim-blaming
>OP calls them gypsies instead of Roma/Cynti in opening post
Oh, okay now it makes sense.
Wait, wait, so the mayor offers them FREE HOUSING, and they turn it down because they LIKE living in a sty?
Perhaps pride, or distrust, are the more likely cause?
Rejecting kindness at the expense of your children's health isn't pride. It's stupidity at the very least, criminal negligence at the worst.
Personally, I would say you can just about get away with attacking people for living an anachronistic nomadic lifestyle in the modern age and say it isn't racist, but if they then abandon that lifestyle and you're still suspicious of them as a group, that's racism.
Re Milos' photo - the problem there is that you could show a photo of a black "ghetto" in the US as against the downtown area and it wouldn't look great. A Brazilian favela (largely inhabited by black people as well) would look much the same. Would your response then be to blame the black people concerned?
If their leaders rejected a free cleanup solution, then I'd blame the leaders of the community for neglecting their peoples' needs to suit their overinflated egos. I don't care what skin color you have.
^^ No, not really. Like Hatter said, they were actually offered several opportunities for a better life, which they refused. I wouldn't have a problem with their lifestyle if they actually didn't have to rely on criminal activities to support themselves. Last summer, they broke parts off an invaluable bronze sculpture in front of a museum and melted them. A half of the total Gypsy population is actually integrated within mainstram society, and some of them are even quite rich. However, they still face discrimination, which is a real problem that ought to be solved.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16836065
Stuff like that doesn't help the image of Travellers at all