"ABLEIST!"

CountryPumpkin

Because people feel uncomfortable discussing privilege, thus use this (admittedly wonderful) distraction as a silencing tactic. 

FWIW I didn't actually intend for the discussion to derail like this. The game is at least a month or two old, I'd figured that everyone here had already heard about it.

To contribute to the discussion, it's hard to discuss whether or not a game is offensive to you in an ableist way when you, yourself, are not disabled in some way. There's obviously going to be some small creep factor in any dating sim, no matter how small, and so I think a lot of people consider the game to be fetishizing or trivializing those with disabilities, rather than using them as equals. That's the feeling you're obviously going to get when the main draw factor of your game is "Look! Disabled people!" Now whether the game is actually ableist or not, I can't say, since I've never seen it, but I can certainly understand why some would think so.

Icalasari

You know, this thread is making me wonder how much of me is me and how much is my meds

Would I still be the same, albeit more easily distracted, without my meds, or would I be a completely different person?

I would go off my meds for a few months as an experiment, but what if I end up so out of it that... Well, something =/

InsanityAddict

FWIW, I wasn't trying to pigeonhole anyone as an ableist for the turn the discussion took.

Crimson

FWIW, I wasn't trying to pigeonhole anyone as an ableist for the turn the discussion took.

glennmagusharvey

where is this pigeon dating sim game i want it nao

pigeons!  pidgins!  i want my pidge to lay golden droppings for easter

Scythemantis

I don't know what the hell the rest of this thread is about but my original beef was that it's just suddenly seemed to catch on, so people who never even heard the word before are throwing it around as a go-to insult in various arguments, cheapening its original meaning.

DonZabu

Any particular examples?

Malkavian

I've never heard Ableist used in a context that wasn't appropriate.

There was a hilarious use of the term on this board, but it wasn't unimportant.

Bob

Wait can everyone shut the hell up about cripples for a minute and link me to that sweet pigeon game

Nyktos

Here.

Bob

Sank yuu

glennmagusharvey

Great derail, or greatest derail?

MillerCross

well, do bears shit in the woods, glenn

Nyarly

I'm not actually disabled myself, but I go to a vocational training unit for disabled people (and the only explanation I can give for that is that the Federal Employment Office does stuff I don't really get), so I think I can judge this somewhat reliably (and even if I were disabled, I could only talk as an individual person).

But I see pretty much no issue with Katawa Shoujo. It's so incredibly inoffensive, even if I didn't know about it's roots I would be surprised how tasteful the subject matter is handled. So far, I didn't really see anything that could even be considered fetishization of disabilities. At least not intentional. The thouht that it has sexual content is rather odd actually (well, I haven't seen any of that sort, so I can't judge it yet). And the characters aren't defined by them, but by their personalities, which may not be exactly uncliche, but actually handled well.

At most, the individual disabilites are an issue with the main character, who has a hard time getting used to it. That actually reminds me a lot of myself, when I came here for the first time. While it's not visible with most people, there are still enough, whose disabilities are obvious, whether it's because they rely on a wheelchair, walk in a strange way or are missing a good part of an arm. It took quite a while to get used it.

Really, the only people I can see getting offended by KS are people who think that disabled people are subhuman scum.

Also, I don't find that pigeon-derail-crap funny and try hard to ignore it.

Malkavian

^Fun times, fun times. >_<

Hatter

I don't understand the "KS is offensive" crowd either. I'm not terribly into visual novels or dating sims - although I do love the Mass Effect series - but isn't it kind of, well, sweet that two people could fall in love, even if they're disfigured? Isn't it nice to think that somewhere out there there's someone who finds you beautiful even though you don't have all your limbs, or you look like Anakin Skywalker?

dmboogie

^

Wait, what does Mass Effect have to do with visual novels/dating sims? 

Nyarly

I think he refers to the romance options.

Iaculus

Of course, Katawa Shoujo could have stood to market itself better. Especially since the title roughly translates to 'Gimp Girls'.

ClockworkUniverse

^They didn't have a choice. They were working from a premise and title someone had made as a joke/parody.

RedEyedAbyss

Ever heard of a working title?

ClockworkUniverse

But the whole point of the project was making a good VN out of a horrible idea someone had come up with long before that as a joke. The title wasn't suggested by any of the devs. Neither was the premise or the design of most of the cast.

Iaculus

Sure, but regardless of who came up with it, a game called 'Katawa Shoujo' is going to get some funny looks, for much the same reason as a book on interracial relations entitled 'Nigger Lovers'.

I realise that the game itself tries to be sensitive, but first impressions are important, too.

ClockworkUniverse

True.

Though marketing doesn't really matter for this, since they aren't actually making money on it.

Bob

Okay so I switched the thingies it told me to switch but it's still Japanese what am I doing wrong

MadassAlex

bob

are you actually playing the pidgeon dating sim

Bob

Well, I'm trying but I can't get it to stop Japanesing on me. >

Bob

Also it's spelled "pigeon"

Hatter

Me thought it was pidgin.

Icalasari

^ *Ba-dum-TSH!*