Bizarre interpretations of The Lord of the Rings.

MadassAlex

I know all popular media is bound to get a few weird analysis in its time, but LotR seems to be one hell of a magnet for hyper-leftist critique. As a socialist who believes that a post-scarcity society may well be won at gunpoint, if things go awry, I find it pretty silly. That should say quite a lot.

I'm sort of lost on where to start with this given the diversity of arguments here, but I will say this:

> a story about advanced prehistorical Europe
> expectation that post-modern values that outdate Tolkien should be prevalent in the writing
> despite the fact that his major heroes, the Hobbits, exist in a non-monarchic society where people are free with their resources
> avoids religion entirely, despite the fact that Tolkien was a practising Catholic

If you ask me, doing any more would kinda of violate the whole Classical/medieval hybrid setting. What more do people want? Racial diversity and more contemporary politics in a setting that aims to have significant historical accuracy is never going to happen. Besides, what good setting is really that much of a wonderful place?

Counterclock

Some people stir the pot not because it needs to be stirred, but because of the controversy they can ride once they stir the pot.

You should know this.

Whale

> a story about advanced prehistorical Europe

Seriously???

Wow, I thought the Men of the East were more Hunnic than anything.

Beholderess

Honestly, it annoys me too. Especially when people attempt to see racism in it

captainbrass

"A magnet for hyper-leftist critique".

Really? Wow. In an era when capitalism is under pressure and people are protesting on the streets, anyone who claims to be a leftist and regards critiquing Tolkein as their revolutionary priority needs to take a long hard look in the mirror.

I think your argument that Tolkein was writing about an pre-modern society and so should not be judged by modern political standards is fair enough in general. I was always more bothered about his economics than his politics, given that he has a tendency to create beings that live in places where you can't actually grow crops and to not really explain how they manage. I mean, Elves live in woods. You can't grow stuff in a wood without cutting it down. What are they eating? They can't all live off nuts, berries, fungi and the odd deer.

Likewise, dwarves. They live in caves, where you also can't grow stuff. OK, they manufacture high-quality jewellery and weapons, but only a handful of monarchs/aristocrats would want to buy that and it's not even clear that anywhere in Middle-earth has a currency with which the dwarves could be paid and which they in turn could use to buy food.

Icalasari

^ Well, the elves have that magical filling bread, don't they?

And the dwarves... Maybe they farm mushrooms? *shrugs*

glennmagusharvey

They farm glowing mushrooms.  Only below 0 depth though.

captainbrass

Ah, but where do they get all the shit for the mushrooms from without any farm animals?

(I actually once wrote an essay on this stuff. For fun. And it was just on paper, not even published on the Internet. Middle-earth, I return to claim my crown as Lord of The Sperging!)

 

Whale

Aren't the Elfs almost immortal?

captainbrass

Elves are indeed immortal, unless someone actually kills them. But there's nothing about them not having to consume nutrients like everything else that ever existed.

I also have no fucking idea how being immortal affects your population stability, but given that the Elves of Middle-earth got involved in a lot of wars which presumably helped to keep the population under control, it's perhaps a theoretical issue.

Icalasari

^ They could have very strict standards and rules about breeding

As for the shit for mushrooms... Well, we don't know all the flora of Middle Earth (or Fauna either), so one could assume that there are shrooms that feed off of minerals in rocks, or cave dwelling animals that they could use

glennmagusharvey

@captainbrass: They just need mud blocks.  Mushroom grass seeds will grow on just mud.

Icalasari

And of course all they need is a dark spot to spawn sone skeletons, then turn the bones they get into bonemeal and use that to get giant mushrooms to make into soup to eat

Wait, wrong game reference

Them

In other words: it's explained for the dwarves, but the explanation involves barter, and it's explained for the elves, but the explanation involves magic, so captainbrass will be unhappy twice.

:þ

captainbrass

Yeah, "a wizard did it" is always a bit of a weak explanation, plus do Elves really just eat lembas (the magic bread) all the time? I can just about buy funnyguts' explanation re the dwarves though.

 

captainbrass

^ I had forgotten the scene with the barrels in The Hobbit. I doubt the Elves in Lorien were venturing far outside their woods, though. You get the impression that those plains beside the Anduin were rather dangerous from LoTR.

Icalasari

So in other words, both dwarves and elves could have farmed but that may have been fucked up by Sauron?

captainbrass

IIRC, some of the plain funnyguts is talking about was called "The Brown Lands" and was originally farmed by the Entwives until Sauron burned it down. So I think the answer for the Elves is yes.