The sheer amount of nontheists here and on the internet as a whole.

Chagen

I feel lonely and like some abhorrent freak/deviant. Also, these guys are the kings of passive-agressive hitler-esque statements.

Gelzo

So I can troll Chagen by existing?

Nice.

CommandoDude

Hitler-esque?

Godwin'd in the first post. Bravo.

But in the future, do you think you can stop comparing people to mass murderers? It doesn't reflect very well on your character.

Khwarizmi

@Chagen: Given that you interpret pretty much every statement by somebody you disagree with as passive agressive no matter how much of a stretch that is, I don't believe you.

See, threads like this are exactly why Fighteer thought you were a troll.

Longfellow

If you feel lonely as a theist, I don't think the theism is your problem.

Nyktos

@Chagen: If I made a JBM for "the sheer number of theists in the world", I'm almost entirely certain you'd get pissed off at me. This is why people call you a hypocrite.

Stormtroper

^ If it wasn't for that, I'd have made that snowclone already.

Chagen

How exactly would it make me a hypocrite? It's a valid and logical complaint.

ClockworkUniverse

Not what he's talking about. Read his post again.

Chagen

I know what he's talking about. He didn't explain it very clearly, though. I would have a right to get slightly pissed.

Go ahead, make the damn thread.

Bobby: Did Fighteer not stick around YF or something? He would blatantly seen that I wasn't a troll.

Beholderess

When this one first discovered an English-speaking (more specifically American) side of the Internet, she was surprised and baffled by the opposite - that so many people are religious and that it is considered default. This one still can't quite get used to it. Oh, don't get me wrong - religious people are not minority where I am from (although practising ones are), but the default assumption is atheist until explicitly stated otherwise.


And honestly, do you consider this one (technically a theist, but very irreligious one and with strong misotheistic leanings) that mean?

Chagen

No, Beholderess, I could never consider you mean~

You're one of the sweetest and nicest girls I know.

Trash_Vortex

How exactly would it make me a hypocrite? It's a valid and logical complaint.

NOTE: Saying something is a valid and logical complaint doesn't necessarily make it a valid and logical complaint.

Beholderess

(blushes)  am honoured, and I mean it.

Anyway, about the number of non-theist in the net. There can be several factors. 1) Most Tropers Are Young Nerds, and there are more non theists among young nerds than among most other demographics 2) There are more Internet users among people of above-average income living in urban areas, which again tend to have more non-theists than average 3) In areas where being religious is an undisputed norm, there seem to be some stigma attached to non-theists, so quite a lot of people do not admit it in real life out of worry of being considered, well, "deviant freaks"

Chagen

Trash: I meant that Nyktos's complaint would be a good one. There are too many crazy Theists in the world.

Trash_Vortex

Ah, I thought you were talking about your own arguament. Points to you.

Chagen

FSTDT shows that we need to educate people. I would prefer that Agnosticism be the default in America, with a Moderate-Deistic leaning.

Trash_Vortex

Why would you prefer that? If the world was like that, why would it be better than it is now?

Beholderess

Hmm, agnosticism as a default position would make sense. After all, in most other cases the default position about something we don't know is, well, "we don't know".

Khwarizmi

Agnosticism is already the default position for nontheists (of the rationalism variety, at least, which includes a great many antitheists).

I don't see how believing in or disbelieving in God is supposed to automatically make you a better or worse person.

As for Fighteer, Chagen, I think he probably mostly read your posts in media, politics and religion threads, since those were the ones that kept getting reported because you'd go in there and say stupid things like "nontheists are the kings of passive-agressive hitler-esque statements" or blow up at people over stuff they never said or implied.

Chagen

Trash: Agnosticism, due to its inherent skepticism, would encourage people to not blindly believe in things and investigate the world to find the true answers, instead of believing whatever is pumped out to them without any thought.

Being a rationalist, I would prefer that society become more rational and skeptical.

Gelzo

"it's"

9/10: Successful troll. Would rage again.

Chagen

Look, I'm sorry that English grammar can be kinda annoying.

Why are you so offended by this oh-so-horrible mistake anyway?

Khwarizmi

Agnosticism isn't inherently sceptical, it just means "I don't know", while hard agnosticism specifically takes the position that we can't know.

And plenty of atheists and theists have thought about their beliefs at great length.  The suggestion that they haven't seems presumptuous and rude to me.

Chagen

I never said that. I appriciate Atheism's skepticism and the contributions atheists have made towards science and other things.

All I want to do is stop things like the WBC (or fundies in general) from happening.

Gelzo

I'm not really mad. Hyperbole is just funny.

But seriously, it isn't that hard to avoid confusing the two.

Khwarizmi

But Chagen, antitheists want that too.

And I'm a little puzzled; you said that you wanted America to be agnostic deist by default and cited rationalism as the reason.  Does that not imply that you think agnostic deism is more rational than the alternatives?

Chagen

Well, it certainly would help. I guess what I meant was that I'd prefer things to be tipped in the favor of Agnosticism and Atheism instead of Theism.

Chagen

Because I didn't say "I don't hate Atheism, just Atheists". 

What Antitheists say: "I don't hate religion, just the people who practice it".

What I keep reading that as: "I don't hate Judiasm, I just hate them fucking jews uneducated plebians that practice it. You know, we should just kill em' all, you know? Since, you know, they cause so much suffering, and us superior antitheists would never do such things. Right...?"

Khwarizmi

1. Stop reading it like that, since that's not what it says and probably not what it means.

2. Not all antitheists hate religious people and not all of them claim to.  I haven't seen many people who say stuff like that, since it would generally entail hating most of the people around them.

3. If anything, I think the reverse is more common - antitheists don't hate people, they hate religion.

Trash_Vortex

You have heard of Godwin's law, right?