The cultural marxists are rewriting literature again

MillerCross

Because...um...moderation is asleep?

Except maybe Ian, who's probably studying. Or busy being British.

InsanityAddict

It seemed that with Chagen it was very much the form of his behaviour in that thread, not the content. The dude was a bigot in many ways even if you take his age and how his parents raised him into account, but those views only ever led to problems if he started victim-complexing or derailing threads with it.

Which I think is fine. I don't really care what someone's views are or how many -ism boxes they check, as long as they can argue in a civil manner and know when to stuff their soapbox. Race preservation ideas are based on such flimsy arguments that I don't really feel offended or threatened by them, just amused. I fail to see how such behaviour can be construed as legitimizing, enabling or tolerating those ideas.

Shichibukai

"'Lovely children's book'. Right.

Oh, and for the non-Brits amongst our number, this is the English Defence League that our esteemed co-forumite takes such pride in being labelled as an associate of.

Can someone please let me know when we can stop pretending that Shichibukai isn't a racist?"

Yes, it is a good book, whether it's to your PC tastes or not. Offensive does not mean bad. Racial stereotypes are a part of the book, and we should accept that. Society is healthier from exploring the nature of racial differences through stereotypes flanderising certain features -- most races have developed historical stereotypes of others, as an understandable reaction to encountering broad categories of humans which are not like them, which have a broadly different set of phenotypes. I guarantee you that Black people have made similar stereotypes of White Europeans, yet those are not censored. We should not be ashamed of them. Anthropologically speaking, these stereotypes are a socio-psychological mechanism of dealing with the variety of differences between races.

I strongly despise the English Defence League's violence or mindless thuggery, but they have the right idea - stopping an unwanted, incompatible culture from invading British society. I put that as my title for a joke, though.

Racist is a loaded buzzword. It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, if most people decide you're a "racist" they get all irrational and want nothing to do with you. For all people claim to be logical, they're psychologically conditioned to react with hate and disgust to suggestions of racism. And that is why we can't have a reasonable discussion on race, because crimethink. 
Accusations of racism play on a ton of subconscious, unquestioned assumptions.
So, if you're going to use that at least lose any pretensions that calling someone a racist either invalidates their points or wins the argument.

All Nines

"they have the right idea - expelling toxic alien culture from British society"

What the fuck dude.

"For all people claim to be logical, they're psychologically conditioned to react with hate and disgust to suggestions of racism."

I wonder why.

RedEyedAbyss

"expelling an unwanted, incompatible culture from British society"

Now I'm glad I live in Canada.

V It's still bad, you twit.

Shichibukai

^^ I realised "toxic alien culture" was going a bit too far. I edited it before you posted.

MillerCross

 I guarantee you that Black people have made similar stereotypes of White Europeans, yet those are not censored.

such as?

All Nines

^Well, I've banned him, so he won't be answering that question.

MillerCross

Score one for the evermod. 

Iaculus

I should point out that Herge found Tintin in the Congo to be ridiculously racist himself - he did all he could to destroy all the copies of the work he could find. As for 'offensive does not mean bad', what positive qualities do you find in its depiction of black people?

EDIT - Whoops, didn't see that, Everest.

MadassAlex

Society is healthier from exploring the nature of racial differences through stereotypes flanderising certain features

---

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they have the right idea - expelling toxic alien culture from British society

---

And you wonder why we think you're racist.

The UK is made of up England, North Ireland, Scotland and Wales. This means that, at various times, these different people have settled, invaded and conquered parts of the landmass:

- The Celts
- The Saxons
- The Danes
- The Normans

No doubt the Celts considered the Saxons a nasty foreign influence that should be rid of, and so thought the Saxons about the Danes and Normans and so forth. Yet today, we accept all those cultural influences without second thought. Cultures adapt and change, and it's true that immigration of one kind of another often heralds that.

As a white guy -- especially lacking any minority ancestry and being primarily Germanic -- I'd rather show my strength with tolerance, acceptance and compromise than try and hold on to something that we're one day bound to change ourselves. We'll sabotage our own cultures without any foreign influence and sometimes this means that things get better.

We don't live in the era of Charlemagne, where the known world sans Europe was Muslim-controlled and hostile, nor do we live in the era of the Crusades or of colonialism. The world is becoming globalised, and that essentially means that many prominent cultures are spreading their influence far and wide. Keep in mind that social change is democratic; it has to be willingly exercised by each individual. If you're finding that your European or colonial European region or country is becoming a little more exotic, it's because people willingly accept it. If a truly significant majority accept foreign influence, then that's tantamount to democratic acceptance.

For most of history, Europeans have displayed their strengths to others as adversaries on the battlefield. We can do better now.

And for what it's worth, I'm rather proud of my Germanic ancestry. But that ends at me. It's something I have, and I'm confident that no-one can take it away. So I don't feel threatened by alien cultures sharing space with me. I'll always have the mythologies and histories, and I love to share. And I love it when those of different origin to me share theirs. We should be celebrating the diversity that arises from race, not fearing it.

Drat! Ninja'd by ban. And just after I got on my soapbox, too. You guys are no fun.

MillerCross

It's kind of cute how everyone was preparing for a discussion to shut him up.

Makes me somewhat happy.

Nyarly

Score one for the evermod.

I'd like to say this too, but I'd have to take a point off because it took so long. So, it's pretty much zero.

Sometimes I have the feeling that I'm too negative...

RedEyedAbyss

Fine. Give the point to laculus for luring his true intentions out.

Them

I don't know if this is worth rerailing or not, but I'm rather at a loss as to how Pippi Longstocking is even remotely comparable to Tintin in the Congo.

MillerCross

It took long because he hadn't been racist here. As much as I don't like the idea of having him here, We can't deny him entrance based on reputation alone. Let's face it, almost none of us would be here if that would be how we'd did things. They kept him under close watch and they banned him when he showed his actual views on race, which he hadn't done here, I think.

Crimson

^I recall him saying his views on racial preservationism shortly after SA found out about him. Glenn flat out called his views racist but didn't do anything else.

All Nines

"I'd like to say this too, but I'd have to take a point off because it took so long. So, it's pretty much zero."

We didn't ban him already because before this he wasn't nearly so blatant and hateful. He at least attempted to make logical arguments regarding racial preservation, to my knowledge. And I wasn't aware of how bad Tintin was.

MillerCross

And I wasn't aware of how bad Tintin was.

but but but

tintin is the best

Them

Tintin overall isn't that bad. It's mostly just a few early books, which Hergé did his best to distance himself from. Tintin in the Congo is easily the most offensive of them.

^ ...and I am saving that image.

RedEyedAbyss

"He at least attempted to make logical arguments regarding racial preservation, to my knowledge."

I'd like to see these for myself. If they are anything like what Annebeeche posted here, well, that's problematic.

Stormtroper

Yeah, for the longest time Shichi kept shut about the whole thing, and hadn't said anything that would warrant banning (except maybe what neo said, haven't read it). Therefore, we should make an habit out of luring people with opinions we don't like and get them banned.

Nyarly

That reminds me that I still need to watch the Tintin movie. I'll probably do it next month, but if I wait too long, I won't have chance to watch it in cinema anymore.

captainbrass

Oh, dear.

If any non-Brits want some context on the English Defence League, it's basically a front organisation for extreme right-wing parties like the British National Party. They lure in naive youngsters who have genuine concerns about stuff like immigration and Islamic extremism and then convert them to this racist agenda. The people who run it are basically thugs, ex-football hooligans and so on.

I always had Shichi down as naive rather than a genuine nasty, but the problem is if you believe in that stuff, it's inevitably going to come out in conversation. It's not like a weird fetish you can just keep quiet about.

Gelzo

So was there something in the rules that he violated, or are we banning people now just for being generally unpleasant?

Either way, I am certainly not complaining, but I thought I'd better ask.

Bee

^^ You say that like this forum has a decent track record of keeping its weird fetishes quiet  >_>

nohaynicklibre

^^ YOUR PONY SPAMMING DAYS ARE OVER MUAHAUHAUAHUHHAUHUHUEHEHEUHUEHUHE

All Nines

"I always had Shichi down as naive rather than a genuine nasty, but the problem is if you believe in that stuff, it's inevitably going to come out in conversation. It's not like a weird fetish you can just keep quiet about."

I thought so too, until he used the phrase "toxic alien culture".

"So was there something in the rules that he violated, or are we banning people now just for being generally unpleasant?"

It's technically a violation of Rule 0 (don't be a jerk), and, though I hadn't really thought of it as such before, that's basically the "get rid of people no one likes" rule. So it's not explicitly in the rules, but we don't want overt racists on the forum, moreso than Chagen, whose problems were more behavioral than opinion-based.

To be honest, I'm still wondering if I should have applied this philosophy towards Chagen sooner.

Gelzo

""get rid of people no one likes" rule."

I like this rule.

^^Silly, I'm a likable troll. You'll never get rid of me. ;3

AHR

I always knew he wasn't naïve, but the proof I had was long gone, since the times when ijbm and yackfest coexisted, when he told me how islam was an evil religion.