How seriously the Zelda fanbase can take the series.

MadassAlex

But Nintendo sure doesn't help, between claiming there is no continuity and announcing when games occur in relation to one-another.

In any case, I think Zelda is much less interesting when interpreted as a continuous, consistent story. Not to mention that as games have become more advanced, even game plots from a series as simple as Zelda become more sophisticated. So there's a pretty hefty degree of dissonance between the older games and the later ones, although I admit that a remake of the original Zelda as a post-apocalyptic semi-horror set in the ruins of Hyrule would be pretty neat.

I also maintain that OoT, TP, WW and ALttP are the same story told by different people for different audiences.

ClockworkUniverse

It's not that hard to make it a timeline. In fact, it's pretty blatant in most aspects where stuff falls. I don't get why people think it's complicated. Is it just because the order the games were released in wasn't chronological?

I also maintain that OoT, TP, WW and ALttP are the same story told by different people for different audiences. 

Um...no? OoT has Ganondorf being some guy nobody's ever heard of. TP, WW and ALttP have him being an evil sealed away long ago.

MadassAlex

That doesn't really matter, though, because different interpretations of a legend or fairy tale are liable to throw that kind of thing in there anyway. I don't recall the tale of Sigurd, for instance, ever explaining the origins of the dragon.

If I had to put together a timeline, it'd be something lone these lines:

- Ocarina of Time -> Majora's Mask
- ???
- ???
- ???
- ???
- The Legend of Zelda
- The Legend of Zelda II

ClockworkUniverse

But...it's very, very simple to put a timeline together. The only things left even slightly ambiguous if you think about it is whether the Oracle games are canon and where FSA falls.

MadassAlex

I've heard some points based on implication and bridging some gaps with fanon, but nothing particularly solid springs to mind.

ClockworkUniverse

Okay, let's start with The Minish Cap. Hyrule's around, but Ganon isn't, there's no mention of a legendary Hero of Time and the Master Sword doesn't appear to exist yet. That places it first.

Ocarina of Time comes next. Why? Because it's about how Ganondorf got his hands on his Triforce piece in the first place. In every other game featuring him, he starts off with it. At the start of Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf's just some guy who knows a little magic. Simple enough.

At the end of OoT, Link goes back in time to change the past. This is explicitly what's happening in the ending.

Let's start with the universe he left to do that. Wind Waker takes place centuries after Hyrule was flooded. Why'd that happen? Because the hero who defeated Ganondorf suddenly vanished from the universe. That places it after the "adult Link" universe, since that's the one he left. Wind Waker then has two direct sequels and that's all we've seen of this timeline.

In the "child Link" universe, we of course have Majora's Mask next, but that picks up after whatever he did to change the past.

So what did he do? Well, in Twilight Princess, we get a flashback to the botched execution of Ganondorf. That's what happened after child Link revealed Ganondorf's plans. This puts Twilight Princess next, as it's the first resurrection after the execution resulting from OoT.

Now, that confirms that those games happen before anything else featuring Hyrule and Ganondorf both existing. And since the second game was a direct sequel to the first, Link's Awakening was a direct sequel to the second and A Link to the Past was a prequel to that set, that means LttP comes next, followed by Zelda, followed by Zelda 2.

That just leaves the three games I previously mentioned as ambiguous.

MadassAlex

Those are certainly possibilities, but they're still based on fan interpretation. There's also the dual timeline thing, which I consider speculative.

I'd elaborate, but I only have access to my phone for the next five hours or so.

ClockworkUniverse

The dual timeline thing is a pretty basic conclusion from OoT's ending and the fact that Wind Waker shows that a universe exists in which Link defeated Ganon once, then when Ganon came back, Link wasn't there and Hyrule was completely destroyed forever. That can't coexist with a universe containing more than one Link-Ganon confrontation in Hyrule.

Twillight Princess, meanwhile, directly references Ocarina of Time, and the order of LoZ, LoZII, LA and ALttP is pretty explicit.

Also, the Temple of Time is in good condition in OoT, overrun by monsters in TP and gone in ALttP.

I'll admit that Minish Cap is debatable, though.

Malkavian

I also maintain that OoT, TP, WW and ALttP are the same story told by different people for different audiences. 

I like to call this The Joseph Campbell theory.

ClockworkUniverse

But that doesn't even make sense. Ganondorf starts out with the Triforce of Power in all of those but OoT, which shows how he acquires it. Meanwhile, everyone's heard of the ancient king of evil in the other three, while in OoT he's just some guy.

MillerCross

Hero of a thousand faces, eh?

Honestly, I don't care. And Miyamoto doesn't, either. So I don't see why I should.

Malkavian

^^So wait, the idea that there are differences in the story because different people are telling it doesn't make sense, or are you referring to something else?

ClockworkUniverse

The fact that Ocarina of Time is about Ganondorf becoming a super-powerful evil guy while all the others are about the return of Ganondorf, a super-powerful evil historical figure, indicates that it, at the very least, is not the same story as any of the other games.

Malkavian

Not in detail, but the broad strokes are still there. Evil monsters rises to power. Simple boy hero shows up and beats him, peace for all.

Honestly, I think any concrete timeline would just raise more questions than it would answer.

ClockworkUniverse

By that logic, there are probably at least fifty thousand stories that are secretly not actually their own stories, but retellings of Zelda games.

And what questions does the timeline I brought up raise?

Malkavian

^That's actually the logic Joseph Campbell goes by in The Hero With A Thousand Faces, hence my naming of it.

ClockworkUniverse

Yes, archetypes exist, but that doesn't mean using the same archetypes makes two works the same work.

DYRE

Best way of thinking about all the Zelda stories: they're all separate games that happen to be about the same thing because that's what fans want, and trying to put them all into one continuity is silly and unproductive, when it makes more sense to think about each game simply as being a separate game.

ClockworkUniverse

^I know it's pointless, but it's really easy, so I basically just did it when I was bored. I waste my time on worse things.

MillerCross

Evil monsters rises to power. Simple boy hero shows up and beats him, peace for all.

While there are similarites between the two beyond these, I'd argue they're still different stories in a mythology that is often talked about in Hyrule. Makes much more sense than a repeated story. Mostly because, let's face it, as much as stories change through time, they wouldn't change as wildly as these four games have. 

InsanityAddict

>Complaint about srs business of timeline theories

>Thread immediately devolves into timeline theorizing

ClockworkUniverse

So...a thread about timeline theories wound up being about timeline theories?

Shocking.

Seriously, though, I really only think about the timeline when someone brings it up, usually to go "the timeline is just so convoluted/obviously isn't possible."

TheConductor

My Timeline:

Skyward Sword (Presumably)

The Minish Cap

Ocarina of Time

Majora's Mask

Four Swords

A Link to the Past

Link's Awakening

The Legend of Zelda

The Adventure of Link

Oracle of Seasons

Oracle of Ages

Four Swords Adventures

Twilight Princess

The Wind Waker

Phantom Hourglass

Spirit Tracks

Glowsquid

my timeline:

The cartoon

Faces of Evil

Wand of Gamelon

Zelda's Adventure

Mutant Rampage Bodyslam

 

Everything else is not canon.

MillerCross

Forgot MGS 4. Which is totally Ganon's origin story.

TheConductor

And that one panel in Action Comics #487 that shows Superman flying.