"Why are you playing Game-X, it's just a clone of Game-Y"

TheConductor

Yes. I am aware that Dante's Inferno is a ripoff of God of War. This is the very reason I bought it.

See, I loved God of War and wanted more of that, so I got Dante's Inferno.

I loved Legend of Zelda and wanted more of that, so I got Darksiders.

I loved Devil May Cry and wanted more of that, so I got Bayonetta.

I loved Modern Warfare and wanted more of that, so I got Medal of Honour.

I loved Grand Theft Auto and wanted more of that, so I got Saints Row

Look, innovation is GREAT, new games and new ideas are really exciting, but sometimes when I really loved something I just want more of it, so send in the clones!

Codename_M308

I don't really like the idea of making a clone of a game without improving the concept, but I still fall into the trap because of boredom. I've played and beaten the first loop of all of Irem's R-Type clones (Image Fight, X-Multiply, R-Type Leo*, and Dragon Breed), because I wanted to know how Irem changes the concept created by R-Type.

• Image Fight is a bit of R-Type-style challenge plus Raiden's genericness and vertical scrolling.
• X-Multiply is R-Type with more aliens. Plus the Force is replaced by tentacles and the powerup system is exactly the same other than said tentacles.
• R-Type Leo is Image Fight refined to be easier, with the American version's instant respawning, the orb-launching gimmick made more useful and practical, and the reduced difficulty. The presentation is also more like R-Type than Image Fight.
  
• Dragon Breed is R-Type but everything's bigger and medieval. The Force is now a giant dragon. Most of the enemies are huge, and the powerup system for the dragon is the same as R-Type's Force.

*R-Type Leo is not quite R-Type enough.

glennmagusharvey

I heard that Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas: The Pumpkin King for GBA was "a transparent wholesale ripoff of the GBA Castlevania games", from http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Metroidvania .

I played it, and quite enjoyed it.  It's also got some pretty nice music.

Trigger_Loaded

^ If you're going to copy wholesale, copy wholesale from the best.

Nyarly

Copying a game isn't bad in itself. However, I don't want to play the same game over and over again. So, the ripoff should have it's own ideas, something that separates it from the source. Saints Row 2 did that pretty well.

RedEyedAbyss

Why play Ninja Gaiden, it's just a clone of Castlevania?

Because Ninja Gaiden is faster and has tighter controls?

MillerCross

I loved God of War and wanted more of that, so I got Dante's Inferno.
I loved Legend of Zelda and wanted more of that, so I got Darksiders.
I loved Modern Warfare and wanted more of that, so I got Medal of Honour.
I loved Grand Theft Auto and wanted more of that, so I got Saints Row

Yeah, but the thing is, that with the possible exception of Saint's Row, these are lame imitations. Not just clones, but deficient and even unfun at times.

So why buy a game just because it's similar to another game when you could be playing something different or at least something better?

Shichibukai

Cynical me-too profiteering or not, alot of clone franchises are essentially a different developer's interpretation of a genre. They are not inherently bad. It might be that the idea has occured to a studio before, but they didn't think it would catch on. The execs were wrong, now they regret it and want to produce that shelved idea after all. Some "clones" are inherently bad and extremely generic, others can have great improvements or variations upon a trend-setter. 

glennmagusharvey

See what happened when Castlevania tried to rip off Metroid?

Awesome happened, that's what.

DYRE

Of course, it's not like Castlevania wasn't already awesome, so it really didn't need to rip off Metroid...

Not that that has anything to do with the thread.

Nyarly

And not a few people are very unhappy about the direction Castlevania has taken.

And while I do like it, it still feels strange to have Rondo of Blood and Symphony of the Night on the same disc.

Malkavian

Then Castlevania tried to rip off God Of War

and I declared Konami dead to me.

MadassAlex

I believe the N64 Castlevanias already used that combat system.

Besides, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow combat > God of War combat by a huge margin.

MillerCross

So, was Lords of Shadow bad or good?

MadassAlex

I thought it was a good game. Flawed, but ultimately fun and interesting.

Malkavian

^^^Wait, what? Are you serious? Really? 

^^Bad. Or as you would say MAAAAAAAAALOOOOSSSS!

It's long as shit (which wouldn't be bad if it were enjoyable), the camera is terrible, you never have any room to maneuver, the story is dumb, and there's no goddamn Dracula.

MillerCross

^^Bad. Or as you would say MAAAAAAAAALOOOOSSSS!

Do I look like a Resi 4 zombie to you? >

MadassAlex

Actually, there is Dracula. And I liked the story.

The combat is better because it forces you to fight well rather than button mash. Because health pickups are reasonably rare, it's important to build up your blue magic to allow healing. So you have to work out which combos are good for which situations, to be prevent too much health loss and to build up your magic reserves. In God of War, it didn't really matter as long as you survived.

It helps that everything about Castlevania was pretty much just cooler. A crucifix chain whip with an extending silver stake? Fuck yes.

And despite Gabriel's poor character development, he was better than Kratos. Because Kratos is pretty much a straight-up asshole and I hated him. Gabriel's goals don't include ruthlessly destroying the innocent, for instance.

MillerCross

And despite Gabriel's poor character development, he was better than Kratos. Because Kratos is pretty much a straight-up asshole and I hated him. Gabriel's goals don't include ruthlessly destroying the innocent, for instance. 

I'd argue that Kratos (At least in GoW1) was rather...not that assholistical.

Malkavian

Dracula's in it for like three seconds maybe. Oooh, can you feel the connection to the game that's always been identified by its connection to Hammer Horror.

I got through the game randomly pushing x and Y the entire time. The only time I found the combat remotely challenging was when I was in a cramped space so I couldn't maneuver around or a boss had some obtuse trick which are both just bad level design

I'll give you that the chain whip-stake-cross was cool but it's an aesthetic concept that is unrelated to the rest of the game.

And yes, Kratos is an unlikable prick. That's his point (at least in the first game) and I'd rather have a character I hate than one the causes no reaction.

^He's still plainly evil in 1. It's just that his actual goal is sympathetic, which is part of what makes him so tragic.

In the sequels he's just a raging monster though.

Still less of a prick than Marcus Fenix though.

MadassAlex

No idea how you managed to win mashing buttons. o.O The game kicked my ass when I tried to do that.

Besides, the ending of Castlevania was very interesting and exciting, I believe. Plus, even if Dracula himself was on in the game shortly, there was plenty of vampire slaying to be had, and the vampires had really interesting and thematic designs.

Actually, that said, the whole visual design of the game was gorgeous.

Malkavian

Well, I did beat DMC on DMD mode so that might have had something to do with it.

Besides the combat the game was ridiculously annoying. The platforming was confusing thanks to the admittedly good graphics and there was no open exploration element.

I couldn't remember a thing about the ending and it didn't make any sense to me, I'll be honest. Some time travel thing or something.

Admittedly, I'd be kinder to the game if it wasn't called Castlevania and instead was called God of War: Dark Ages or something.

MadassAlex

The original Castlevania games didn't have open exploration either. I did dislike the lack of that element, but I don't think it's fair to hold that against the game. And there was only linear time travel involved -- that is, what you and are I doing right now. It was just way later.

Malkavian

Yeah, but series evolve and saying it didn't have something a game on a eight-bit cartridge also didn't isn't exactly a great defense. In addition, there's no way you're going to convince me that LoS had the level of sophisticated difficulty the original Castlevania did.

glennmagusharvey

So, which game is worse, Metroid: Other M or Castlevania: Lords of Shadow?

Malkavian

Oh, Other M. LoS is just plain-run-of-the-mill mediocre and grabbing things from other popular games. Other M was an offense to the entire franchise.

MadassAlex

Other M. By far. So far. T_T

glennmagusharvey

Well, those were the two closest things that I could think of comparing.  They're both aiming to semi-reboot a famous franchise's storyline, are big-budget games with lots of attention, and have lots of fan controversy.

Malkavian

I'd say the new DMC would be a more appropriate comparison.

MillerCross

Has that been released yet? Because if it hasn't then it's nothing we can really speak of, is it?

Malkavian

Fair enough. Mostly I was speaking from a 'try to be more appealing to westerners' reboot position.