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Harem anime

MalkavianMalkavian
edited 2011-10-02 00:54:44 in Media
MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
Honestly, my biggest problem with these series isn't even the sexism that's almost always a problem with them.

What bothers me is the protagonists are always such ineffectual little shits. While you've got all manner of dream girl and it's easy to see why someone would be attracted to a lot of them/make them their waifu you really have no reason whatsoever to believe these girls would have any attraction to this guy.

I mean I know they're supposed to be self-insert wish fulfillment, but some positive qualities and character traits would help make them actually interesting.
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Comments

  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    help make them actually interesting.

     they're supposed to be self-insert

    I have found the contradiction =D
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Well aren't you just Phoenix Wright in this thread. =P

    In any case, wish-fulfillment pseudo self-inserts can be good characters. Not often, but Spider-man comes to mind.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Yeah, but a lot of what makes Spiderman interesting is his struggles. The very premise of a harem means that that particular struggle- one which the target of the wish fulfilment could relate to, that of trying to find love- is pretty much null and voided.
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    Heh, "self-insert."
  • vandrovandro
    edited 2011-10-02 01:01:49
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    You can blame Love Hina, it was a meh show at best, I liked it, but the sizeable success it had made everyone else follow the leader, and badabum, every harem protagonist from then on was a "generic loser". Unlike others like Ranma Saotome from Ranma 1/2. Who is just a skilled martial artist jerk.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    How about Superman? Dude's a God.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    edited 2011-10-02 01:02:44
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Hmmm...

    Maybe if harem anime were less overt. Perhaps if the characters weren't openly glomping the characters and there were genuine obstacles to relationships rather than the protagonist being weak-willed.

    ^^Yeah, any personality characteristics they will have is generally 'jackass'.

    ^You know I was about to talk about how Smallville is pretty much a harem anime.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    But then it would lose a lot of the wish fulfilment, because there would be genuine challenge there.
  • vandrovandro
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    Sorry, harem protagonists being jackass? I can't see it. Whenever I think of the word I think of Johnny Knoxville and similar ilk.
  • CommandoDudeCommandoDude
    CRIMINAL SCUM!
    This is why I never ever watch harem anime any more FOREVEEEEER.

    That and the protagonists always seems to be a Nice Guy(tm)
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    edited 2011-10-02 01:06:56
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Okay, asshole or prick if you prefer, you pedant. =P

    ^^^Eh, I think wish fulfillment can still have obstacles.
  • vandrovandro
    edited 2011-10-02 01:09:11
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    The only modern harem manga I keep reading is Rosario+Vampire, it at least has a plot that's tangential to the harem antics, which are getting more and more serious as time goes by.

    ^There I have to disagree, most post-"Love Hina" main characters are nice guys (tm). Harem protagonists that are jerks are very few, and they at least have more characterization.
  • CommandoDudeCommandoDude
    CRIMINAL SCUM!
    ^ Just steer clear of the anime.

    You should be able to tell why.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Wish fulfilment can have obstacles, but a lot of people don't like challenge because it's hard, so they would prefer to avoid it. And when you're trying to provide said wish fulfilment...

    Harem anime would probably be better if they focused on providing protagonists that one can relate to and find genuinely likeable, rather than focusing on making the viewer able to step into their shoes.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    But then it would lose a lot of the wish fulfilment, because there would be genuine challenge there.

    Fiction needs a challenge. Even wish fullfillment characters and stories follow that rule. 

    Harry Potter comes to mind...
  • NyktosNyktos
    a little muffled
    I was going to make a lolharemshowssuck post but then I remembered I haven't actually watched more than one episode of any.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    i think you just accomplished what you wanted, good ol' Nick.
  • vandrovandro
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    I watched the anime, I only have one thing to say: Damn you...GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONZOOOOOOOOOO!
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Fiction needs a challenge. Even wish fullfillment characters and stories follow that rule. 

    Harry Potter comes to mind...

    They need a challenge, but not a genuine one :3
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    edited 2011-10-02 01:14:10
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    ^^I actually found the anime to have a so-ridiculously-over-the-top aspect to it that went right back to amusing for me. I might try out the manga which might elevate to guilty pleasure

    I'd say Haruhi and Highschool of the Dead are harem anime as well.

    The manga is probably sadly lacking in disco dancing though.

    Cygan: completely agreed on protagonists. The thing is, you can still be relatable while having things I can't do. Peter Parker is good at physics and I'm not but I still relate to him.
  • NyktosNyktos
    a little muffled
    I don't see how Haruhi can be a harem anime unless you define a harem anime as anything that has a guy and a bunch of girls in it.
  • vandrovandro
    edited 2011-10-02 01:15:19
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    It was rediculous, yes, but did it have Kurumu and Mizore having lesbian undertones become overtones?

    Also, it lacked Fairy Tale's goal of world domination (OF COURSE) and human extinction by way of DRACULA!

    ^It does have harem undertones, you can't deny that.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    edited 2011-10-02 01:17:47
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    ^^a bunch of girls who interested in boning the protagonist.

    ^considering I found those two the most amusing I might actually have to check it out.
  • vandrovandro
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    Mikuru's feelings are the saddest ones, she can't possibly be with him unless she makes decrepit old kyon wait for her to be born, otherwise, TIME PARADOX.
  • DYREDYRE
    edited 2011-10-02 01:20:38

    Male self-insert characters creep me out, at least of the sort in visual novels (and anime based on visual novels).  That's kinda my main problem with harem anime.

    And Haruhi is most definitely a harem anime.  Or at least it's a parody of one. 

    ^ Time paradoxes are apparently no big deal in the Haruhi universe though, so whatever.

  • NyktosNyktos
    a little muffled
    @Malkavian:
    ^^a bunch of girls who interested in boning the protagonist.
    A bunch of girls who are probably interested in boning the protagonist, and it's almost never the focus of the series.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    edited 2011-10-02 01:23:39
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    ^^Well, with Visual Novels isn't that kind of the point? Pseudo-roleplaying?

    ^Dude the whole crux of Book 1 was Haruhi being jealous Kyon was paying attention to Mikuru. Book 4 is all about how much Yuki wants to be with Kyon and older Mikuru pretty much says 'I wanted to fuck you but I can't because of time paradox.'
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Cygan: completely agreed on protagonists. The thing is, you can still be relatable while having things I can't do. Peter Parker is good at physics and I'm not but I still relate to him.

    Yeah, they can be relatable even while having skills you don't have. A large part of it is circumstances in life, outlook, and their attitudes, I think.
  • vandrovandro
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    Depends on the novel but many are just AFGHANCAAPs for you to project your persona.
  • DYREDYRE
    edited 2011-10-02 01:24:45

    Well, with Visual Novels isn't that kind of the point? Pseudo-roleplaying?

    Yes, and it kinda creeps me out somehow. >.>

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