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Comments
Female support characters are FINE as long as they can do non-effeminate / disturbing things with their talents... Invocation of the Lethal Harmless Powers trope is one of my favourite things EVER.
Female rogue characters annoy me. Even if they go so far as to be assassins. They just annoy me for reasons I can't quite put my thumb on.
Female bruisers are the best. Plain as. Frost-giant ladies with massive, nordic warhammers (and other things) FTW. There is no end to the allure of a woman who could crush your head with one hand. Oddly enough, this is what I find most repulsive in male characters.
As for male support characters... well honestly, the same rules apply. They gotta be able to use their skills creatively (and preferably in really gory ways) or I just don't wanna know.
And of course if you want to see the best examples of "support powers" used in lethal manners... I recommend the later parts of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure.
The things that Giorno Giovanna's Gold Experience stand can do are frankly rather scary despite his basically being the team healer. Once it upgrades to Gold Experience Requiem... it is pretty much the joint most powerful stand in the entire series (along with Enrico Pucci's Stairway to Heaven).
One is a healer and the other uses mind tricks, while their brothers are more combat oriented (although the otter is support, the bat and the dog-horse-lizard are a Glass Cannon and a Mighty Glacier respectively) =/
>:c
I said five, by the way. There was also the... um... two-faced hermaphroditic deity of despair and madness.
Woo... no paranoia for me. ^_^
While I actually like characters who have a more supportive role, I think that if a series is incredibly focused on fighting and none of the female characters fight, they ultimately will not receive as much attention even if they arguably play an important role. Thus, I can kind of understand why some people might find non-fighting female characters to be "useless" in those works. Given how often female characters lack screen time, I do not think those critics are completely wrong about that.
I mean if your whole world revolves around fighting (i.e. a shonen fighting series) and women find themselves left out of fights the overwhelming majority of the time (or only participate in designated female fights), I think there is probably a problem there. Of course, I could just be oversensitive.
@topic: And this is why shojo interests me more than shonen.
Also, I generally hate the idea of RPG characters that do nothing but heal, but that's because they end up being dead weight when not healing.
...... I prefer the former.
(Tenjho Tenge and Anatolia Story respectively, if anyone didn't know)
Doraemon is boss and you know it.
I really hate the way characters in shoujo media are drawn.... All spindly and clearly designed for 24/7 dainty lounging in silk.
Fuck. That.
THIS HAND OF MINE IS BURNING RED! ITS LOUD ROAR TELLS ME TO GRASP VICTORY!
ERUPTING GOD FINGEEERRRR!!
regarded as interesting by the fandom because he takes an uncommon role
for males. He will also be regarded as useful and important to the team,
even if the only difference from said healer girl is that he has a
dick.
Are you sure he has one? :P
> Male support characters are intersting and useful. Female support character, on the other hand, are useless and sexist for doing the exact same things. This is a ridiculous double standard. What makes it even more ridiculous is that it is perpetrated by the exact same people who normally oppose double standards.
For what it's worth, it's the same double standard that makes action girls interesting.
> I've noticed when you have an action series with lots of characters,
there will often be a Crowning Moment Of Awesome where the leading
noncombatant female on the hero's side (who is often either a specialist
healer of some kind, or introduced as a useless character), will be
alone with a kid or an injured person and has to select a weapon and
fight.
See?
Incidentally, I also dislike "designated" female-on-female fights. I just make everyone an equal-opportunity combatant.
> Female rogue characters annoy me. Even if they go so far as to be
assassins. They just annoy me for reasons I can't quite put my thumb
on.
I like rogue characters, so I end up with a cast of all rogues of different sorts. Fugitives, spies, politicians, hackers, assassins, trolls...
Warriors / Tanks should be women.
Rogues should be men.
Healers should be men unless they're also atrophers too.
Nukers can be either.
Buffers should be men.
Debuffers should be women.
Oh yeah... that reminds me...
Freak characters are almost always men... and almost always villains for that matter.
Need more anti-hero female freak characters.
That is why my favourite Darkstalker is Hsien-Ko. ^_^
Hmmm... and I wonder what a Rule 63 on Jack from Power Stone would look like...
Can has sex-change, anyone?:
Winry from Fullmetal Alchemist is a female character who is well-loved even though she's one of the few characters in the series who doesn't fight, because she's a genuinely interesting character in spite of that. (The series also has no shortage of badass fighter women, so that helps avoid claims of sexism and actually it seems to always be brought up as a counterpoint in "anime is sexist" debates.)
Nonetheless, we really do need more interesting noncombat characters. Killing shit isn't the only way to be awesome.
And furthermore, it's kind of ridiculous to crow at your staff chick for being useless. I mean, if she takes a OHKO or something, your reaction is probably gonna be along the lines of "oh shit
For what it's worth, it's the same double standard that makes action girls interesting.
Some people criticize the "action girl" character type too though. From what I can tell, that is partially because they see them as exemplifying the idea that supposedly masculine qualities are good, while supposedly feminine ones are bad. Plus, I think those characters are occasionally (if not often) used as sources of fan service which I guess brings up even more questions.
Incidentally, I also dislike "designated" female-on-female fights. I just make everyone an equal-opportunity combatant.
Yeah, I feel like designated female-on-female fights tend to just make female characters look inferior, almost like the whole "separate spheres" for men and women idea. I think you could make a good argument that they are pretty uncreative too.
Bee,
Nonetheless, we really do need more interesting noncombat characters.
Yep, I wonder what roles they should play though, especially in an action-focused series. Maybe having some more smart guy/girl characters who plan out all of the strategies might work. I feel like the "moral support" role has more potential than how people tend to use it as well.
"I feel like the "moral support" role has more potential than how people tend to use it as well."
Ah. Moral support. It can be interesting, but so many producers suck at dealing with that role. A lot of times, it's an informed ability, with the best that the character can come up with are generic cliched platitudes, if even that. Especially jarring is when the other characters do a better job of it by virtue of actually having something resembling a personality.
Nonetheless, I know a good moral support character when I see one (hint: assertiveness is more convincing than passivity).
It's easy to portray directly; this is frequently done in dialogue. It's just hard to implement simply, unlike say punching baddies in the face.
CorneriaX Castle!" Most of them could be brought into combat, and while most were subpar, very few of them were exactly utterly useless.I saw the makings of it in the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games too. It gave things a real sense of not just camaraderie, but community.
A lot of times, it's an informed ability, with the best that the
character can come up with are generic cliched platitudes, if even that. Especially jarring is when the other characters do a better job of it by virtue of actually having something resembling a personality.
Yeah, I tend to agree. Going back to the topic at hand too, I feel like a good number of female non-fighting characters can get lumped into that role and just talk about "the heart of the cards" and such rather than push the protagonist to do what is right. I think that when used to their full potential, moral support characters can function like a character's conscious and be there for him or her in moments of despair. Being able to calm someone down and otherwise give him or her a sense of hope both seem like pretty important responsibilities and I wish moral support characters would take them up more often.
Glennmagusharvey is probably right about that feeling being tough to capture in video games though.
Bee,
I think you are right about those kinds of characters being important in helping to create a game's atmosphere. I mean, sure the gameplay is important, but I feel like it is nice be able to get the idea that a game's world is actually alive.