That the obsession with paedos is so disproportionate

captainbrass

Not that I don't think it's completely heinous and deserving of social disapproval/punishment, but the extent to which paedophilia has become an obsession for some people on the internet and just generally bugs me. Why do we have such a witch-hunt on this given that other sexual offences are as serious and have a low rate of conviction?

Also, how should you react to a witch-hunt when you actually believe witches exist and are a threat - just not the one they're made out to be?

With apologies in advance to The Paedofinder General... 

MadassAlex

The other thing is that such condemnations get us nowhere, because paedophiles who want to seek help generally can't, or are too anxious to. So they're left to stew, essentially.

Child-fucking is heinous, but paedophilia itself isn't something I can find it in myself to hate.

MillerCross

^This. Really, I don't hate the fact that you have...troubling impulses. Just work on them and be done with it.

Gelzo

Well it's understandable that rape of a child would be considered worse than rape of an adult. But I agree with the above two, and want to point out as I've done before that pedophilia isn't synonymous with child molestation. A pedophile isn't necessarily a bad person, but a chi-mo generally is. 

Chagen

Woah.

You guys were able to say what I was afraid to. I thought that I said "pedophillia isn't inherently bad, child-fucking is" I'd be labeled as some kind of "Pedo-supporter". Which is kind of exactly what this thread is about.

Nova

I will still note, though, that those impulses are very... squicky, and while they may not be child molesters themselves, I would rather not associate with people who have those impulses at all.

Gelzo

That's sort of on par with people who find homosexuality squicky and refuse to associate with homosexuals if you think about it. 

Nova

That's not on par with that at all. 

There is a difference between people who like people of the same gender/sex as them and people who get off to imagining fucking a six year old. Finding homosexuality squicky is... I guess it's understandable, but society's current norms state that it's acceptable and people should not feel squicked out by it. On the other hand, not all that many people can really feel comfortable around someone they know fantasizes about diddling little kids.

Gelzo

Granted acting on homosexual urges isn't the same as acting on pedophilic ones, but my point is that homosexuals and pedophiles can't be faulted for their sexualities and neither should be dehumanized because you decide that they're gross.

I still find it disturbing that you wouldn't want to associate with someone because of something they can't help.

Nova

Just because someone cannot help their behaviour/inclinations does not make said behaviour acceptable. I don't care if they can't help it, I don't want to associate with someone who likes the idea of having sex with little children.

If it makes me a bad person to not want to associate with people who are inclined to want to have sex with children, then so be it. I guess I am a bad person. Tough luck.

Gelzo

The parallel with homophobic conservatives is eerie.

Nova

I guess you can think what you want.

Gelzo

That's not what you were saying earlier.

Elbeem

I can certainly understand why you would feel that way, Cygan. It's an inherently abhorrent subject, and I honestly can't say I would react much better if faced with someone who felt that way in real life. I hope I would be able to react differently, but since it's not something I've experienced I can't say for sure.

Unfortunately for people who do suffer from paedophilic impulses, the same stigma that makes it "okay" to effectively ostracize them from society in that way, also prevents them from seeking the help they need to learn to deal with those urges without acting on them.

It would be like taking anyone who is predisposed to drug or alcohol addiction, and forbidding them from having any kind of support network should they dare to admit it.

glennmagusharvey

The pattern parallelism is there; no one is saying that the ethical nature is similar.

I think that the general excessive ragging on pedophiles is due to the fact that it feels good to have (or think one has) moral superiority over something else.  So basically, we have pedophilia, which is one of the most repugnant and totally utterly wrong things in the world, which everyone can agree is so totally wrong and bad and evil.  This means that people can rag on pedophilia and pedophiles repeatedly in order to burnish their righteousness credentials, without much fear of reprisal or people saying "why are you doing that?".  These comments apply to how this purportedly happens all the time when TVT is discussed on SA, as well as other situations.

However, as MadassAlex observes in the second post here, this is not necessarily a practical idea, especially for those pedophiles who genuinely feel bad about their condition and want to seek treatment.

MillerCross

All I have to say on the matter is that I don't mind associating with such a person, if something fruitful (Such as the person getting therapy) comes out of it.

RedEyedAbyss

Doesn't getting therapy go on a permanent record which employers will try to hunt down?

MillerCross

Getting therapy? Yes.

The reasons why you got therapy stay under patient-doctor confidentiality.

RedEyedAbyss

I've heard that admitting you got therapy is still a death sentence in terms of employment though. Not saying it's fair, because it's anything but.

MillerCross

Dunno, there probably is a stigma, similar to how there is beyond the context of employment.

But I haven't seen it or heard of it.

Elbeem

Well, I had an involuntary inpatient hospital stay due to a previously undiagnosed major depressive episode, and still got hired after that and the ensuing couple years of therapy.

This was more than a decade ago, however, so I would assume potential employers are more savvy about digging up this information now.

captainbrass

My experience of job-hunting in the UK would suggest that unless you tell them about a medical condition when asked about your health on an application form, it's unlikely most employers will do much digging.

More on-topic, I have to admit I share Cygan's unease about associating with a paedophile, even if they don't act out their fantasies, really in the same way I wouldn't be comfortable about associating with a heroin or crack addict. Directly, taking hard drugs only hurts the person taking them (although indirectly, they can cause harm to others e.g. by committing crimes to get money for the drugs). But the point is, they're addicted. It's hard for even professionals to help them out of that; you probably won't and they might even exploit you to further the addiction.

Changing someone's sexual preferences is even tougher. I'm just not sure associating with someone like that would help them.

Gelzo

I don't see how associating with a pedophile would be dangerous unless you gave them information that would allow them to come into contact with children you knew.

And an urge is a lot different than a willingness. Most people don't succumb to every one of their weaknesses. I'd be less critical of this unwillingness to associate with pedophiles if it was specified that the individual in question had a history of abusing or attempting to abuse children.

captainbrass

It wouldn't necessarily have to be information. If other people trust you, for instance, they may trust your friends because they're your friends. And even if the person doesn't have a history of abusing kids (and, if they did, they're quite likely to lie about it anyway) they've got a real problem with their sexuality and it's not one you can help much with.

I hope I'm fairly tolerant of sexual variations generally, but at some point you have to draw the line. My real point was not that I approve of paedophilia, but that I don't think it justifies the hysteria. I don't think there's a kiddy-fiddler hidden under every bed  and I don't quite understand why some people behave like there is.

Elbeem

@captainbrass: I personally don't think you should feel an obligation to do so. As I said, if I was confronted with an admission of those types of urges, I don't know that I would be able to associate with them either.

What needs to be recognized is that so many people would not only refuse to associate with someone who admitted such feelings, but would make every effort to actively vilify them, that the people suffering from the condition really have no support structure whatsoever and are too frightened of the life ruining consequences to seek one out.

And this is unfortunate, because that means an opportunity for someone to get help with controlling their urges before they do give in and actually harm children is missed. And that's really a failure of society.

captainbrass

^ Agreed. As I said, I don't like the witch hunting aspect of it.

Gelzo

I dunno. It's not like you have to stop being friends with someone if they let slip that they have a rape fetish.

RedEyedAbyss

But wouldn't it be your obligation as a friend to try to help them if they have a mindset that could be potentially harmful?

MillerCross

Yes, I think Gelzo's point is that that's what you should try to do, if they are your friends, rather than ostracize them. 

Myrmidon

If you want to have sex with children, the best thing to do is to go get psychological help to make you stop wanting to have sex with children.

Vivi

If you are homosexual, the best thing to do is to go get psychological help to make you stop wanting to be homosexual.