Sex toys for women are sexy/empowering/good. Sex toys for men are creepy/'bad'. (NSFW)

IanExMachina

This a common double standard that appears to be common.

As the title says the relationship between women and sex toys is generally seen in a positive light, such that it is empowering for a modern woman to use them.

However men's relationship to sex toys is seen in a more negative way; the men are creepy to rsort to toys, innumerable jokes about the fleshlight/blow up doll (despite them filling the same role a dildo/vibrator does for women, sexual stimulation of the genitals through simulation).

RedEyedAbyss

"As the title says the relationship between women and sex toys is generally seen in a positive light, such that it is empowering for a modern woman to use them."

...

Yeah, I don't get it. Of course, feminism is a very broad movement.

IanExMachina

Well it is an argument I've seen several times, I mean there was a whole Ch 4 Documentary (Serious Business) on Sex Tips for Girls basically promoting the argument/image.

I think that's cool, but there is still a negative image for men regarding sex toys.

RedEyedAbyss

I haven't really put much thought into sex toys. I was just surprised by the notion at first glance, especially with the double standard at play, though I'd be interested in the basis for it.

IanExMachina

Well going from what I observe:

The women using them are modern women who are more open with their sexuality, there is the concept that nearly ever women owns a vibe now.

However the image of men using sex toys is contrasting, they are seen as creepy, desperate or unable to hold sexual relations with real women.

A few caveats:

The negative view I've seen isn't applied to gay men.

Straight men can use sex toys in a relationship together with their partner.

Crimson

It seems to be rooted in the overall sexualization of women and the desexualization of men in modern society, as I see it.

IanExMachina

^

I think I agree, but to be sure could you expand preferably with examples.

DonZabu

I just don't see the point of sex toys for men. It's a pretty simple apparatus on its own, I don't think it needs the extra help.

IanExMachina

You could say that about female anatomy, both are able to be stimulated by hand.

Vorpy

"empowering" becomes overpowering once you realize how much power most women already have.

DonZabu

^^ I'd argue further, but then I'd feel kind of dumb for comparing women's pursuit of orgasm to men's as though I were some kind of expert on the subject.

I do, though, have to question why this is such a pressing issue for you compared to any other double standard.

IanExMachina

^^

However I have nothing against them exploring themselves using toys.

^

It isn't really a pressing issue, I was just creating a wishlist on LoveHoney and the subject came to mind so I thought I'd start a thread on it.

DonZabu

I recall a month or two ago that you brought up the same thing in another thread, though.

IanExMachina

Really?

I honestly don't recall myself (could you link please?).

(I'm almost tempted to try and get a survey on the opinions regarding sex toys, as well I enjoy doing sociological research)

DonZabu

Actually, it turns out it was somebody else bringing it up, and you agreeing with it:

http://itjustbugsme.com/forums/discussion/4869/autosuck-vagina/p1

Still doesn't seem like a big deal to me, though.

IanExMachina

Ah I was sure I hadn't posted anything like this before.

Oh well I still agree with their point.

OutsideTheBauksi

Could it be related to the view that the man should be the one with the active role in a relationship, and should be the one pursuing the female? So then, a woman using a dildo is just her making up for not having a fuckable penis around in the only way she should, but a man using such toys is creepy/weird because he is "supposed" to be out finding a girl, but instead he's alone with a fleshlight.

Add to that the fact that he can't have a healthy relationship with sex toys but can with a woman and it almost kinda explains it I guess.

DonZabu

Really, this is more like an extension of the regular taboo of men masturbating when they could be having sex, just conflated by the lack of utility of "Why spend money on that when you could just use your hand?"

IanExMachina

^^

I agree it is with how the sexes are seen to be in relationships, as I mention in my earlier posts about the men being seen as unable to get a woman. 

^

There is a taboo about men masturbating, when they could be having sex?

I never knew. /sincere

When I'm drinking less wine I'm gonna create a survey about this!

Gelzo

"Of course, feminism is a very broad movement."

Buh-dum tsssh!

IanExMachina

^

Dame can't believe I Ms.ed that.

MillerCross

There is a taboo about men masturbating, when they could be having sex?

Male Masturbation when a male does it is seen as immature. Femal Masturbation is seen as something liberating because lolol years of sexual repression and stuff.

IanExMachina

^

Really?

Going by popular culture over here I would never have associated male masturbation with immaturity.

However definitely an interesting point to look at.

MillerCross

I don't know. That's mostly how it seems to be seen around here.

I think that part of the problem is that men are supposed to not be virgins. And virgins are not supposed to masturbate. So, then it follows that men are not supposed to masturbate. If they are of age, that is.

IanExMachina

^

That is fascinating.

I'd hazard a guess at it being culturally specific, as without anything but anecdata I've never heard that thought/argument before.

For here at least, men masturbating is a given, women masturbating is becoming a given just like women using sex toys is becoming a given.

MillerCross

Admittedly, I'm going by personal experience and what I've seen in media about it, so it obviously comes with a grain of salt. So...yeah, I'd say it's a culturally specific problem. You gotta remember that America is relatively conservative when it comes to sex. 

IanExMachina

^

Yeah cultural specifics are great/fascinating as I'm only speaking from a UK perspective.

Yeah I remember reading a 'lovely' paper about Homosexuality and Masculinity in Brazilian society, definitely conservative.

MillerCross

From what I've heard (And correct me if I'm wrong) it's not too dissimilar to how it is seen here (AKA: Being homosexual is against nature and that you can't be a man if you like other men and etc etc)

IanExMachina

^

The paper (which regrettably I can't access since I only got it free when at uni) was from about 2002.

It was about basically how prevalent 'you can't be a man if you like other men' is.

(Especially interesting was accounts of mothers telling their male children not to cry or they'd be 'fags')

It also looked at links between this view and the proportion of single mothers due to the masculine image of being able to sleep with many women, whilst being less interested in commitment to a family group.

MillerCross

It was about basically how prevalent 'you can't be a man if you like other men' is.

It sadly is. It's a bit of a problem because it means that there's also a lot of accusations of homosexuality floating around. Specially when it comes to actually speaking up against such idiocy.

(Especially interesting was accounts of mothers telling their male children not to cry or they'd be 'fags')

Heh, my mother used to do that, actually. Funny thing is, I never thought much of it. I mean, as I grew up I realized that most of the time, she shut me up with such things because I used to care if I was called that and it'd stop me. Later on in life she has shown respect and tolerance for homosexuals and transgendered people

It also looked at links between this view and the proportion of single mothers due to the masculine image of being able to sleep with many women, whilst being less interested in commitment to a family group.

...I'm not sure if I follow here.

IanExMachina

>Heh, my mother used to do that, actually. Funny thing is, I never thought much of it. I mean, as I grew up I realized that most of the time, she shut me up with such things because I used to care if I was called that and it'd stop me. Later on in life she has shown respect and tolerance for homosexuals and transgendered people

I hate to sound weird but, FASCINATING.

To see something written in an essay (even if it is based on qualitative data) is so very dry but to hear a first hand experience (such as you just gave) is a lot more involving.

(I really hope it doesn't come off as offensive or anything, if so I'll delete my post.)

>I'm not sure if I follow here.

Well if I remember right, the image of masculinity that was being propagated was not focussed on commitment to a family/woman, so there a lot of men went 'AWOL' from women who had their children, leading to a lot of single mothers.