People who plan on ragequitting TV Tropes because of Troper Tales's content and other stupid stuff

glennmagusharvey

1. No one is telling you to go around proudly proclaiming your being a "troper", carrying a badge signifying your membership being registered at having a username to yourself at TV Tropes, or putting such information on your resume.

2. You probably live in the same town as a sex offender.  You almost certainly live in the same state/province as one.  Your species has a damn lot of them.  Same applies to other categories of creepy and/or crazy people.

3. How exactly is this site going down the drain?  If anything it just got better with the removal of Troper Tales.

Radd

1. So? People can still find out that you are.

2. It's hard to move away. It's not hard to leave a website.

3. Which was immediately replaced by "Troper Tales but on the forum".

ClockworkUniverse

^3. Only not. There's a subforum for general trope discussion, on which anecdotes won't be forbidden, but aren't supposed to be the primary topic. Even the "Troper Tales isn't on the site anymore" page doesn't specifically say you can post them there. They won't even get their own threads.

glennmagusharvey

^^ Are you actually saying that you think it's a legitimate concern that TV Tropes's reputation is
(1) not one of cataloguing devices used in creative work but one of sheltering pedophiles and other crazy people, and
(2) so bad that it rubs off on everyone who has a username on the site?

Radd

^^ Do you think it will be used that way?

^It isn't right now, but it's starting down that path.

ClockworkUniverse

It's starting down that path by...trying to fix its problems?

Radd

No, by not fixing its problems.

ClockworkUniverse

Looks like an improvement to me.

Radd

It looks like a Hobson's Choice to me.

To clarify, our choices on the crowner were pretty much keep it or keep it.

ClockworkUniverse

That's not what a Hobson's Choice is.

And we aren't keeping it. It won't have its own section.

Stormtroper

While I agree it is (or at least looks like it is) an improvement, I can
understand why the way Fast Eddie treated the whole thing is a sign of
bad things to come.



Anyhow, I agree on #1 and #2.

glennmagusharvey

...based on that article, it seems the term you want is either 'false dilemma' or 'morton's fork'.

ClockworkUniverse

^^As I said on the other thread, I think Eddie's problem is that he really sucks at the PR aspect of justifying his decisions.

Crimson

Though I haven't technically ragequit, my reasons for joining SA has more to do with my dissatisfaction with the administration, the troper tales thing was just the last straw.

Counterclock

Remember to insult the people leaving Tvtropes by calling their reasons "stupid"

adds that extra flavor of "Don't leave Tvtropes, or else you're stupid."

Noimporta

Not really, the problem here is that people were expecting things to be magically fixed with the removal of troper tales. Things are not that simple, things are never that simple. You cannot make rules against "creepy" or "dumb" or "annoying" because of how ridiculously vague those concepts are, for example, there are plenty of behaviours that are rarely complained about in the usual outlets that I find annoying/dumb, but that's no grounds to legislate against them; and even if you could, you have to know with who you're dealing with: FE is a libertarian, of course he wouldn't restrict what people are allowed to say on those grounds (Remember that Tongpu has been around for longer than all of you).

With that in mind, what can and should be done is not condoning such behaviour, as a community in general. By deleting Troper Tales, a big step in this direction was made, because personal anecdotes no longer exist in an isolated haven, but rather inside the forum, where the community exists and provides feedback. Of course, this will need the tacit agreement of a sizable amount of people, but given that the crowner ended with a 2:1 ratio, it's hardly unachievable.

ClockworkUniverse

^That's precisely the solution. We need to post in the new subforum about the other topics it covers and not show much interest in anecdotes. That will make it clear that while they're allowed, their presence isn't generally considered good.

Vorpy

Plus, it's less easy to brag about yourself when the majority of the people seeing it can reply to you and point out all the ways you aren't badass, so it helps discourage many of the people who seek to stroke their ego on there, and hopefully teach them to be more modest about what they write, now that they aren't on a page where replying to it negatively can be deleted, and on a forum where feedback on said things, if kept subtle and not volatile, can address bad anecdotes.

MillerCross

it's less easy to brag about yourself when the majority of the people seeing it can reply to you and point out all the ways you aren't badass

Woman, this is a forum where the most ugliest motherfuckers get called handsomes.

Do you really expect that to happen?

ClockworkUniverse

Ah, but it's also a forum that really hates Troper Tales.

RocketDude

No, it's a forum where you people make a running gag out of calling Malkavian handsome.

^That too.

glennmagusharvey

Quoth Noimporta:

Not really, the problem here is that people were expecting things to be
magically fixed with the removal of troper tales. Things are not that
simple, things are never that simple. You cannot make rules against
"creepy" or "dumb" or "annoying" because of how ridiculously vague those
concepts are, for example, there are plenty of behaviours that are
rarely complained about in the usual outlets that I find annoying/dumb,
but that's no grounds to legislate against them; and even if you could,
you have to know with who you're dealing with: FE is a libertarian, of
course he wouldn't restrict what people are allowed to say on those
grounds (Remember that Tongpu has been around for longer than all of
you).

With that in mind, what can and should be done is not
condoning such behaviour, as a community in general. By deleting Troper
Tales, a big step in this direction was made, because personal anecdotes
no longer exist in an isolated haven, but rather inside the forum,
where the community exists and provides feedback. Of course, this will
need the tacit agreement of a sizable amount of people, but given that
the crowner ended with a 2:1 ratio, it's hardly unachievable.

QFT.

ninjaclown

I wanted Troper Tales gone, and that's what happened. I'll stick around to see what else needs to be done. The work never ends.

Forzare

I'm mostly leaving because the whole TT debacle made me realize that I just don't care anymore.

Also I strongly dislike 95% of the mod team.

GLORIOUSLeader

How can you dislike 95% of a ten-person mod team?

Forzare

Shhhhh.

Okay, in that case, 80%.

I didn't know how many mods there were and I was too lazy to go count.

AnneBeeche

I'm sticking with TV Tropes because I want to continue to help fix it. That and I genuinely like some of the people there.

Even deleting Troper Tales and its very premise altogether wouldn't solve all of TV Tropes's problems, it's just the first step in the right direction.

Noimporta

Quoth Noimporta

A single quoteblock? Not a point by point response?

I'm not sure if I should feel honored or insulted.

glennmagusharvey

Honored, because everything (or at least the vast majority of what you said) is something I agree with.

Specifically:
* Removing Troper Tales does not magically make the problem of creepy or otherwise inappropriate content disappear.
* Making rules against creepy/dumb/etc. content doesn't work.
* Fast Eddie has a (small L) libertarian way of approaching this issue.
* We shouldn't condone inappropriate behavior.
* Forcing this content into the forum is more likely to cause such behavior to get appropriate feedback.
* The 2:1 ratio on the crowner makes it pretty clear that we have a sizeable number of people who are dissatisfied with such content, making such an effort more feasible.

IanExMachina

So, I haven't been paying attention, what is happening to TT?

ClockworkUniverse

^Got deleted. There's going to be a subforum for general discussion about tropes, with one thread per trope and links to the threads from the wiki. Anecdotes will be allowed, but won't be the main topic and aren't even mentioned on the page that every Troper Tales page now redirects to. People left the site because this was the same as not deleting Troper Tales at all, apparently.