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"Delusions are just as valid as a religion"

RottweilerRottweiler
edited 2011-08-07 03:12:19 in Philosophy
Inside, too dark to read
Whenever I hear an atheist say this, I wish I could bring Rene Descartes back from the grave to strangle them.
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Comments

  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Belief is not the problem. Using belief as an excuse to act morally abhorrent is the problem.
  • BobBob
    inb4flamewar
  • DonZabuDonZabu
    edited 2011-08-07 03:26:45
    Keep in mind that, for your average Dawkins atheist, the only conception of religion they have is Protestant Middle America that wants to teach intelligent design in schools, and most of them probably wouldn't know who Descartes was if you smacked them across the face with one of his books.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Don't worry, I'll pacify them with music known to soothe all!


  • RottweilerRottweiler
    Inside, too dark to read
    @Malk: It's not a matter of ethics; it's a matter of epistemology.

    In Cartesian rationalism, God is necessary for you to be certain that your belief in a mathematical axiom doesn't come from a brain defect or an evil spirit.

    Now, Cartesian dualism may well be wrong, but you need to demonstrate that before going "Herp derp, belief in God is just like schizophrenia." It's hardly a self-evident truth that all the dumb Xians would realize if they stopped being sheeple.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Funnily enough, a lot of philosophers point out the dependence on the existence of god to be a fatal flaw in Decartes' philosophy.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    ^Right. I'm pretty sure Kierkegaard would have more than a few words with Descartes.

    Which reminds me. An OP that depends on invoking a single authority is really dumb.
  • DynamodDynamod

    as an atheist, I can see the value in relgion. at least, having faith in a god (or gods) can give some comfort over some of the more distressing parts of life, and allows you to answer from unanswerable questions (what happens to our soul when we die? etc.) Most religions also teach good life morals.


    but some people take it just too far. Just look at fanatics from any religion. people who put the agenda of their church above that of themselves are easily prone to going down the wrong path in the name of their god(s).


    in the end, religion is good, but if you are a mentally healthy, intelligent, morally upstanding individual, faith is unnecessary.

  • Scrye2Scrye2
    Electric Boogaloo
    The way I see it, since God's existence is neither confirm-able or dismissible, atheism is just as much a faith as any religion is.

    And Burden of Proof is just a fancy way of saying "I can't be bothered to provide evidence for my side, so you're going to have to do all the work instead!"
  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    atheism is just as much a faith as any religion is.

    Lol
  • DynamodDynamod
    CC: there is a difference between atheism by choice and "not giving a shit"
  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    I'm quoting Scyre >_>

    and laughing at it because it's funny.
  • DonZabuDonZabu
    Agnosticism represent!
  • AHRAHR
    Yeah, I can see where Rott is coming from. Delusions is...not the right word to use, if you're trying to make a general "all beliefs are equally valid" argument.
  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    The problem with religion is there isn't enough Taoism in the U.S.

    That is all.
  • MyrmidonMyrmidon
    Whenever people say that all conceptions of God are either redundant or unproven, I like to say "Whitehead's God, there you go".
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    Yes more Taoism is needed.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    I was a taoist once.

    I can easily say "Fuck that shit" without a second a thought.
  • MoeDantesMoeDantes
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    What I don't get about religion is why it has to be attached to a concept of a God. It seems to me like believing in the supernatural, and having some sort of spirituality/faith, are actually two different things that Atheists usually conflate together because... well.... because they're stupid, basically.

    It's like, for most years of my life I didn't follow any particular religion but still believed in UFOs. Nowadays, I love Taoism (though I'm not sure if there's any rules/doctrines I should be following) but I've become a halfway skeptic of the paranormal. So am I religious or not? It tears me up in side, it does.
  • ForzareForzare
    edited 2011-08-07 12:35:05
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    What I don't get about religion is why it has to be attached to a concept of a God.

    Maybe it's because almost all of the well known religions have some kind of God? 

    Also, first result on dictionary.com for religion:
    a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.


    because they're stupid, basically.

  • NyarlyNyarly
    Likes cheesecake unironically.
    The way I see it, since God's existence is neither confirm-able or
    dismissible, atheism is just as much a faith as any religion is.

    This. And I say this as atheist.

    I think that pretty much any belief system is valid, no matter where it comes from. Probably, I would strangely at someone, who unironically beliefs in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but I wouldn't say that it's "wronger" than Christian belief or a lack of religion.
  • VorpyVorpy
    ☭Unstoppable Sex Goddess☭
    It's like, for most years of my life I didn't follow any particular religion but still believed in UFOs.

    Well, people have recorded videos of UFOs and more than one person has seen them. So they "exist", but they may not exist as the people percieve them, it's up to the video recorders to prove that the ship was not of human origin, and then that is all they will need to prove that they are real in the sense that they want them to be.

    So far though, I haven't found any videos of God anywhere so I guess I will just have to wait for a sighting.
  • Scrye2Scrye2
    Electric Boogaloo
    You know what a UFO is? It's an unidentified flying object. What that means is, if something is airborne and you don't know what the fuck it is, it's a UFO. Could be a balloon, could be a helicopter, could be a goddamn meteorite, but until you confirm it as such, it's a UFO.

    Whether or not it's extraterrestrial in nature is a completely different fucking question. UFO =/= aliens.
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    edited 2011-08-07 17:51:43
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    Technically speaking, if you're not sure which specific variation of 747 that plane is, it's a UFO.

    More ontopic: last time we had a religion thread, we lost two members, so...let's tread carefully.
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    isn't there a religion based solely on the conception of adhering to teachings? rather then texts or deities? basically no Bible, no deity, just words from whomever you see as a valid teacher?
  • ForzareForzare
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    ^^ Two?  I thought we just lost CF.

    Unless I'm thinking of something else.

    ^ Buddhism?  I think?
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    Moviebob said it was Gnosticism but then again he has a habit of not doing the research.
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    ^^I'm pretty sure that shitstorm was also why Khwarizmi left.
  • ForzareForzare
    edited 2011-08-07 17:58:49
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    Oh yeah.  I forgot that that's what made him leave.
  • All NinesAll Nines
    edited 2011-08-07 18:01:41
    Has friends besides tanks now
    Actually, CaptainFargle left later than Khwarizmi. During a different religious argument. Though I think we also lost Moerin to a religious argument. Or at least, I haven't seen her since then.
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