Okay, just to clear things up

Crimson

The pedophile part is just plain not true, but the anti-intellectualism thing kind of worries me.

I mean we have dozens of pages on fanfics and other random internet crap, some VERY long. But examples of Classic Literature may not even get a page and when they do they're little more than short descriptions with a list of tropes. No Such Thing As Notability or not what does that say about tropers?

Myrmidon

It's too bad that it's physically impossible to add pages for classic literature yourself.

DYRE

 

Wicked223

Feeling superior to people over the Internet is far easier than writing work pages, Myrm.

DonZabu

^^^^ That they're superficial and have no taste? That, and they have a deathly fear of looking pretentious.

Crimson

I don't know nearly enough about Classic Literature to do those pages justice, and I suspect this is the case with most of the wiki.

It doesn't set a very good precedent does it?

Regardless, the Classic Literature thing is just an example of a more abstract problem.

MillerCross

As much as I'd like to delete Troper Tales myself and relish its destruction, I know it won't happen. So I just resigned to it an try to get the next best thing out of it. Or something. I dunno. -shrug-

RedEyedAbyss

I don't mind the lack of classic literature, since it's not meant to be a serious site anyways. What I do have a problem with is idiots saying Kodomo no Jikan is deeply psychological and sociological with no regard to what those words mean.

Though to play devil's advocate for Neo Crimson, the TvTropes culture doesn't particularly encourage stuff outside "geek" interests.

vacasama

^ I do agree that some of the people there seem to have superior attitude that off putting at times.

ninjaclown

^^, ^ Yeah TvT does not exactly specialize in anything other than geek interests. I mean, we try our best to cater to every kind of fiction possible, but people are people and will generally share interest in only a few things, neglecting the rest.

MillerCross

I think that part of it is this actitude of "I can't write a proper article about it" that so many tropers seem to have when it comes to make a red link blue. 

vacasama

I think the adverage age also has some to do with it.  Most of the people at TvT seem to be teenagers and college students.  I just happen to fall outside those demographics.

Noimporta

OK, we've had the discussion several times, so here's some of the reasons as to why chinese cartoons, webcomics and fanfic often have more exposure than literature classics: They're recent; a show that's airing/webcomic that's running/etc has a whole other component to the mere enjoyment and analysis of the work: the social one, people gather to discuss the new episode/chapter/whatever, and it's more fresh in their mind. Which brings us to the serial format, since all you get is an episode/chapter/whatever a week, there's time to dissect it throughly, people usually won't stop at each chapter of a book to add the relevant tropes to the page, and only then resume their reading. The way one experiences a book is very different to the other mediums (who would've thought?), and generally leads to different kind of output (Literature is more prolific in the often overlooked analysis namespace). There's also the issue with the userbase, which is heavily skewered towards people in their teens, whose interests often lie in pop-culture, it should be up to the allegedly more mature and well read people (IE, those who complain) to fill in for the classics.

Though to play devil's advocate for Neo Crimson, the TvTropes culture
doesn't particularly encourage stuff outside "geek" interests.
What is this magical "TV Tropes culture" we talk about? What do Deboss, Bobby G, Mathias, you and me have in common, besides going to the same site? This is one of the main problems with these generalizations, there is no such thing as an archetypal troper profile, the only thing that makes a "troper" is going to that site. Barring Fast Eddie's recent measures to enforce positivity (in the wiki, anyway), there's nothing discouraging or encouraging expanding the information on any kind of works.

As for the topic of Troper Tales, I too think they should be removed completely. Firstly because they are creepy, annoying and unfunny and reflect poorly on the wiki, and secondly because mocking them has become stale... I mean, we've been doing it since 2009, guys, Deadpan Snarker #79 sperging out isn't funny anymore.

RedEyedAbyss

"This is one of the main problems with these generalizations, there is no such thing as an archetypal troper profile, the only thing that makes a "troper" is going to that site."

In theory. Stuff like this, however, casts doubt on that (From the Scott Pilgrim vs The World page):

"Mary Elizabeth Winstead, especially in the scene where she changes. A gorgeous girl with Anime Hair who gets a Black Bra and Panties Lingerie Scene. Ramona is essentially Mary Elizabeth Winstead as designed by tropers."

glennmagusharvey

> It's too bad that it's physically impossible to add pages for classic literature yourself.

Wait, why not?

Unless you mean "physically" as in "go to the servers and add the data in person".

----

Also, keep in mind one major reason that some people have supported TT: People's experiences with some tropes can lead other people to greater understanding and even utility of these tropes.

The most prominent example of this is with tropes used in tabletop role-playing games.  TRPGers have noted how reading about other people's use of a trope, especially also within a TRPG setting, can give them great new ideas.

DonZabu

^ He's being sarcastic.

Vorpy

Who wrote that? We should delete it because they are wrong, because I don't remember designing her at all.

All Nines

^^^ He was being sarcastic.

MillerCross

^^^He's being sarcastic. Incredibly so.

"Mary Elizabeth Winstead, especially in the scene where she changes. A gorgeous girl with Anime Hair who gets a Black Bra and Panties Lingerie Scene. Ramona is essentially Mary Elizabeth Winstead as designed by tropers."

So...a bad edit done by some idiot who thinks that all tropers think like him is proof of there being such a thing as an archetypical troper...how? And before you use the "It wasn't deleted" argument...well, let's just say that if there's a problem with the wiki is that people don't zap shit when they should. 

Vorpy

And before you use the "It wasn't deleted" argument

I am not using an argument. I am saying we should probably delete it now because we are aware that it isn't true.

DonZabu

There. Taken care of.

MillerCross

That was directed at Abyss_Worm.

RedEyedAbyss

It's not just one comment. There was a similar statement on the Moe Stare description before I deleted it, and a "troper culture" gets alluded to on the forums every so often. And while these may not constitute "proof", it shows people do believe in a troper archetype.

Stormtroper

The size of classic literature pages compared to others only goes to show that popular culture is popular.

And what Noimporta said.

Hey, whatever happened to those Troper Tales changes?

Nyarly

Jesus, some people are thin-skinned...

Vorpy

Says the weeaboo

InsanityAddict

TVT's main problem is that it is enabling of a certain manchild mentality. SA and others always conflate this with weird and icky fetishes, which muddles the issue, but one can easily spot how they're mainly annoyed by the ridiculous escapism that seems to occur in Troper Tales. The idea of tropefying your life is taken way too seriously, especially by some of the forum's out-of-touch-with-reality self-confessed shut-ins. It's tiresome that they use the place as a therapy substitute.

Nyarly

TVT's main problem is that it is enabling of a certain manchild
mentality.

So, CWC would make a good troper? Now, I know why so many are glad that they are not as fucked up as him.

Ponicalica

The main problem is that people are trying to identify some overarching problem that explains everything that's wrong with the site; the only thing that fits here is «Fast Eddie is overworked and not very competent».  There are a lot of little problems, but the only big problem is that Fast Eddie doesn't really know how to run a website.

Counterclock

Actually, I'd say the situation with Tvtropes is that, in the effort to not be exclusionary(due to wanting stuff filled out like a wiki)  Many of the people that did come and filled it out made it look exclusionary, because the community that's there makes it look like they're calling the shots.

"All I want is classical Literature on Tvtropes"

Then just make the pages for classical literature.