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IJBM that IJBM was a cause of drama in the first place.

2

Comments

  • InsanityAddictInsanityAddict
    Diet NEET
    Problem posters with temper tantrums are tolerated for too long. The same thing happens on TVT all the damn time, never forget that those types lasted longer over there then over here. We have a better mod/user ratio, only the mods are still learning the ropes, and I suspect the TVT mod who made the dismissive remark only hears the drama and not the improvements.

    Ergo, learn to care a lot less about what the bros over there might think of you. Heck, most of us have probably frequented chans at some point, IJBM2 is nothing compared to that. Besides, e-rep is all about demeanor, not about topics or which sides you frequent, and I've seen no personality changes between how posters behave over here and over there.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Eh. Still kinda hurtful when Madrugada dismisses us as a 'drama-pit' or whatever, despite our efforts -shrug-
  • InsanityAddictInsanityAddict
    Diet NEET
    We are a drama-pit, given the ridiculously low threshold TVT has. The complainophobia that the site has instituted at almost a policy level makes a frame by which they trace all drama back to 'complaining/bashing/being negative'. Through that lens, IJBM2 can be nothing but a dramafest, aided by hindsight and confirmation biases.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    I know that.

    It's just, like, we're trying.

    But when we're just... dismissed like that, it makes me, at least, feel like... Like our efforts are just ignored. Like, nah, we don't care you're trying.

    Yunno?
  • ninjaclownninjaclown
    Hate it, but what can ya do about it?
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Nothing. I know this.
  • InsanityAddictInsanityAddict
    Diet NEET
    It's only been a week or so, you'll grow into it eventually. Besides, we aren't doing it for them, we're doing it for us: while bettering the reputation to get new members might be a worthy goal, the smaller size gives a better environment to learn the ropes, and getting our own members in line first has the most immediate effect of increasing the fun for everyone involved.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Not just speaking about my efforts, but about the mods as a whole.

    Yes, that is true, I guess.

    I should just try and stop the subject coming up -sigh-
  • ninjaclownninjaclown
    Think this is one of those times when not caring what others think is vital.

    [denial] This is OUR CLUB, they didn't refuse to come here, we REFUSED TO LET THEM IN!!! [/denial]
  • AHRAHR
    Drama is at its worst when it happens and nothing is accomplished or learned.

    Drama by itself is not the enemy, just pointless drama.

    So, I ask you, is this pointless drama?
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Probably :S
  • InsanityAddictInsanityAddict
    Diet NEET
    No, since it led to measures being taken and the mods gaining exp.

    (Ergo, the fastest way for the mods to get comfortable in their roles would be to create lots and lots of drama :D)
  • AHRAHR
    Then it's fricking painful to go through, but it could be far worse.

    Of course, I could be talking through my ass. I go through drama like, every other week.
  • InsanityAddictInsanityAddict
    Diet NEET
    That's what the Drama Society is for, of course.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    I was responding to ninjaclown, sorry.

    I would disagree that it is pointless drama.
  • AHRAHR
    Oh, ok, my bad. Of course, I was responding to IA so... 
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    I thought I should make it clear.

    This is... Chagen's actions and demeanour coming back to bite him in the ass.
  • NyarlyNyarly
    Likes cheesecake unironically.
    Oh, Jesus the whole situation is even more fucked up than I thought.

    Maybe I should just leave the TV Tropes forum and IJBM for a while. And maybe never come back.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    If you think that would be best.
  • NyarlyNyarly
    edited 2011-06-09 06:23:02
    Likes cheesecake unironically.
    Knowing myself I won't, though. Especially after I uploaded so many avatars on TV Tropes. That would have been even more pointless if I leave now.

    But it bugs me that the moderation is still to soft here. Chagen's thread was violating the "no importing drama" rule from the start and not merely "skirting" it as GMH claimed. And yet it was allowed to live that long.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    I am sorry. I was asleep during the incident, else I would have locked it just for being an unnecessary drama thread.
  • ForzareForzare
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    I think Nyarly means the original FSTDT thread.
  • NovaNova
    edited 2011-06-09 06:28:51
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Oh.

    I don't even want to touch that thread. The other mods were already there, so I just left it up to them.

    By which, I mean to say that I don't want to interfere in what the others were doing.
  • InsanityAddictInsanityAddict
    Diet NEET
    I think what constitutes importing drama is best judged on a case-by-case basis, left up to the discretion of the mods. The constant spillover from Troper Tales wank could count, for example, or the smack-talking about specific posters on other sites, or the Busy Street stuff, were it not for the fact that those discussions remained mostly drama-free. There's a distinction between importing discussion and importing drama.
  • All NinesAll Nines
    edited 2011-06-09 08:22:30
    Has friends besides tanks now
    Hm. I don't think I was a mod at the time of the original FSTDT thread, and by then the mods had already made a sort of decision on it. I think banning Chagen this time was justified because the drama might have escalated, and he might benefit from time to let this FSTDT thing die out, and to think about how he composes himself.

    I dunno. That probably sounds pretty flimsy, and while technically I'm the one who banned him, it wasn't my decision. I would've let it go figuring he might not do it again, and figuring that it was too late to get him on this. -shrug- You'd have to ask GMH for a better phrasing of the reasoning behind Chagen's ban.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    On TV Tropes, and how It Just Bugs Me relates.

    Separating TV Tropes and It Just Bugs Me is like trying to separate Germany and Austria.

    They are certainly their own entities, but both share history, cultural and political background to such a degree that both have informed one-another in an irrevocable fashion.

    I mean, sure, let's be our own thing. But let's also recognise what we have in common. And let's not slander one-another, either. We can't stop TV Tropes from being kinda mean, but we can be the force of change ourselves, at least here. Perhaps if we show less bitterness, it'll reflect over there.
  • SchitzoSchitzo
    They're somethin' else.
    In my opinion, all the beyond pointless shitposting was the death keel to the first IJBM.
  • glennmagusharveyglennmagusharvey
    edited 2011-06-09 12:55:21
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    The shitposting happened BECAUSE IJBM 1.0's impending death was announced.  It quickly became "what can we get away with before the end of IJBM as we know it".

    ----

    As for the moderation being too soft, I'll take the blame for it.  Very early in our site's history, I could justify this by saying that building a core userbase was more important, but after that, I guess it's some extent of wishful thinking on my part.  I have been hoping that problem posters, especially those banned from TV Tropes but wanting to return, could be given a place outside of the main site where they could still interact with some tropers but have a chance to change their behavior and (in more than one case) be gradually weaned off of a dependence on this particular community for their social fulfillment.

    Some of this has happened, though it's just been quite a bit slower than I would have hoped.  And it's taken quite a bit of effort on my part to talk to these people and to moderate their excesses.  I could have banned a number of such "problem users" early on.  I could have instituted a rule whereby people who, even if through no fault of their own, cause major problems/drama in the community, could be legally removed--but I really felt like I wanted to give some of these people a second chance.

    I do like how this site can give people a place outside of TVT to work things out.  So far that's only really happened once (of note at least), wherein Bobby and someone from Busy Street worked out drama that previously got threadlocked on TVT.

    I also don't really like the amount of secrecy on TVT about moderation and (especially) administrative decisions, so that's another thing I've tried to do here--stay open to user feedback, and be more transparent in how the moderation works.

    I don't like to ban people just because they bug me.  This can set bad precedent, both for me and for the community as a whole.  However, that doesn't mean that problem users don't exist.  Ideally, when people do dickish or otherwise annoying things, it's been my hope that, as a moderator, I should only need to give them a not-very-nice look, and then they'll get the hint and realize they should stop doing it.  Unfortunately, this isn't the case in real life.

    ----

    > Separating TV Tropes and It Just Bugs Me is like trying to separate Germany and Austria.

    We should totally start the Holy Tropan Empire.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    edited 2011-06-09 12:58:34
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    We should totally start the Holy Tropan Empire.

    GMH gets one gold star for that, and another for his attitude towards moderation.
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    I'm still trying to be a tougher mod, but whenever I see something requiring moderation, my first instinct is less to act and more to ask other people if they think I should act. I'm trying to do less of that, at least, when it's not necessary.
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