People solving problems (especially school ones) with violence.

Hatter

Then I've been doing speed for all the wrong reasons.

Chagen

I don't mind seeing violence in fiction--I love it. 

However, violence in real life has real consequences. 

So if I'm killed for being black, it's apparently a good thing? If a gay guy is killed for being gay, it's a good thing? Because violence apparently gets shit done. -rolls eyes-

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That depends on if the objective is indeed, killing someone for being gay/black. It is a good thing to the person with the objective.

snowbull

Violence isn't good, but it's easier to use and more effective than nonviolence. If someone wants to solve their problem, violence might just do it.

Hatter

It may not be a good thing, but at least it's exciting. If I opened up the newspaper every day and saw "UN DECLARES SEVENTH CONSECUTIVE DECADE OF WORLD PEACE" on the front page, I'd probably go out and kill something to relieve the monotony.

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Also,

"How you can promote violence when it leads to nothing but suffering, death, hatred, and poverty"

I don't see why this should be said when it's pretty much included under suffering anyway, unless someone had a poverty fetish.

MoeDantes

Yeah Chagen, you lost any respect you might've had when you started strawmanning and having OMG freakouts and "nah nah nah I'm not listening!" in place of making an actual point.

We've all pointed out how violence can be a force for good. If you refuse to see it, then there's nothing more to be said.

Chagen

So, kids, we learned today that having a different opinion is wrong.

Why?

Because it's wrong, that's why!

Hatter

Having wrong opinions is wrong is different is opinion is learned is why.

Seriously, Chagen, you should learn to listen.

snowbull

Chagen, I can ignore all the other annoying behaviours you have, and I do like you, but I'd appreciate it if you stopped doing the "apparently we aren't allowed to have different opinions" thing just to shut down discussion. No one is saying that.

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I'm not sure if Chagen is referring to the pro-violence opinions or his own opinion being considered incorrect.

snowbull

I'm not really advocating violence, but from a pure "getting things done" mindset, it's often hard to beat.

Hatter

He's referring to the widespread belief that wrong is violence. I can see where he's coming from, but I really fail to see how it relates to the current discussion.

Thorn14

I gave up on humanity a long time ago Chagen.

You should do the same.

If I was an alien and visited earth and watched it, I'd go back home and tell my leaders to nuke the fuck out of earth, just to be safe.

Also, on topic?

Violence is a QUICK answer, but in the long run it will screw you over.

Hatter

If I was an alien and visited Earth, I'd stay. We've got everything they want - trees, the fishing in Minnesota, this feeling called love.

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How do you know that is everything they want?

Hatter

Movies. No, TV shows. Wait, it was the video games. Definitely the video games.

Vorpy

So, kids, we learned today that having a different opinion is wrong.

Your opinion is not wrong you fucking COMPLETELY RESPECTABLE FELLOW HUMAN BEING, no opinion can be wrong since it's a point of view, something that differs from person to person, and is based completely on your views, tastes and morals. it's just your opinion is not something we can support because it's flawed, based on hyperbole and misrepresentation, created out of misunderstanding arguments, strawmanning and demonization of completely unrelated points,  that are so simple only a goldfish would get confused by them, and it's just absolfuckinglutey stupid Chagen.

I disagree with you because you stay stupid shit and never support your own point in a civil manner. You always have to play the opinion/subjectivity/objectivity card to try and defend your own right to spew insane bullshit that makes even me rip at my neck in anger. I should not be replying to you because I told myself I can step behind the wall of acrimony and go "Oh no, I am NOT falling for that shit again."

But guess what? I am going to fall for that shit again. I am going to step back into the ring, and instead of pretending all of the stupid shit you are spewing constantly doesn't exist, I am going to look it in the face and shove my fingernails into it's ass and rip out it's fucking intestines. Disembowel this stupid fucking wall of inanity that everyone gets blackholed into every time Chagen is SHOCKED AND AWED by the fact that people are not as morally right as him.

Listen Chagen, people are fucked up. People like to pretend to be fucked up. People like to pretend they are not fucked up, but are fucked up anyway. Do you think the worst kind of people you are SHOCKED AND AWED by even give a fuck about your giant mouth or your vastly opinionated way of thinking? Fuck no, they are busy enjoying their lives curb stomping gays and cutting black people's heads off with saws because they absolutely fucking hate them and cannot stand to know that they exist. Humanity is fucked up, deal with it. You can't stop people from doing fucked up things by screaming about it on the mother fucking internet, or even at home.

Stop pretending that people are denying your opinions. Nobody is doing that. They just refuse to accept yours as something they can agree with or relate to. That is fucking all. Nobody is stopping you from puking all over your fucking keyboard, going apeshit with your face on the keyboard and screaming at the mouse to move it around on the table at an accurate enough angle to punch the mouse and post this puke-ridden piece of shit of an argument you are using to justify being fucking wrong. you have every fucking right to do this. Nobody is censoring you, nobody is erasing your shit. Feel free to post more fucking pointless shit that makes you look like a fucking goldfish with a computer, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF MY THOUSANDS OF GOOFY GODS, Post more.

Because you have every right to do so.

Vorpy

inb4 tl;dr or cool story bro or anything Nyarly says

DonZabu

Honestly, reading your Chagen posts tends to mentally exhaust me, like my mind is getting repeatedly kicked in the balls. I should probably stop reading them. That, or get some sleep.

Vorpy

I also live by the "talk shit get hit" guideline. so whatever.

Solstace

*claps for Vorpy*

Stormtroper

"Rational" doesn't mean good. If violence gets you a desirable outcome (and for some people, others' well-being doesn't come into play in an outcome being desirable), then using it is the rational course of action.

Forzare

MoeDantes

Just gonna say, I find it funny that the person who talks about how "civilized" and "rational" he is, uses the most uncivilized and irrational debate tactics, and we "barbarians" have run circles around him in terms of civility.

But then, the people who brag about their "higher standards" are always the first to break those standards and reveal themselves for the animals they are underneath.

InsanityAddict

>internet argument about violence and killing by people who never have gotten into a 'real' fight, much less killed a person or have violence as a regular part of their job

>discussion about violence in general and school bullying completely overlaps

Wat. I'm with Chagen on his point about violence being absolutely stupid to glorify as a solution to school bullying. Don't risk getting yourself expelled and report dat shit at the earliest possible convenience, while you're still calm about it. If the teacher doesn't work, go to the principal. If the principal doesn't work, go to your parents and have them inquire about the situation. If you by all means have to learn the bully a lesson, do it outside of school. Getting someone expelled or possibly even kicked out of school will fuck up his life much more than your scrawny little nerd rage.

All Nines

Damn, why do I always miss the more interesting discussions? Whatever, thread hop time.

"How you can promote violence when it leads to nothing but suffering, death, hatred, and poverty is just....my fucking god. "

It has its positives, and certainly it doesn't always lead to those points above.

"So if I'm killed for being black, it's apparently a good thing? If a gay guy is killed for being gay, it's a good thing?"

Who the hell said that? I think we can all agree that that's a horrible reason for picking a fight.

"A perfectly valid strategy that also leaves thousands/millions dead."

Ah, there's the problem. You're pretending that all violence is the same.

I don't advocate violence as an ideal solution to everything (I find it entertaining in minor cases such as school fights, but in the way that train wrecks are fascinating; and for that matter, reporting the bully (to the police, not to school employees) might be a better solution), and certainly not the go-to solution in every situation, but there are times when it's the only solution that works, and if you're in one of those situations and are pretending it won't solve the problem, chances are you're going to get fucked up. That's just how it is. If you're appalled by it, that's fine, but if you wouldn't ever resort to it, you may be doing yourself a grave disservice.

Kino

Violence is always an option.

LouieW

Sorry about this, the formatting of my post is weird for some reason.

Moe Dantes,

First, violent
atmospheres are doing humanity a favor. Most people don't really live unless
they're on the threshold of death. That's why a lot of people in peaceful
societies go out and find excitement by rock-climbing, hang gliding, doing
drugs or any number of things that run the risk of accidental death. People
just love living on the edge. The contrast it creates also allows them to enjoy
the nicer things in life more (its no wonder that warlike societies tend to
have a higher appreciation of art, in this case).

I am not sure that this is actually true. While I certainly
think that some people have that perspective, I think there are plenty of
people who like living safely without risk of death. If you are looking for
evidence for that, I would point to the number of people who have existential crises
about death, especially elderly people who continue to have multiple medical
operations and buy multiple types of medicine in order to prolong their lives
and decrease the risk of death.

I think there are also plenty of people who can enjoy the nicer things in life without having experienced a violent
atmosphere.  In fact, I think that having
been exposed to a violent atmosphere can potentially hurt one’s appreciation of
nicer things if one believes that the world can only be violent and thus that
there is no hope for nicer things.  Likewise,
there are different kinds of art, and I would prefer nice, peaceful art to art
that glorified pointless warfare or showed a bleak world. That might just be a
personal preference though.

I was unaware of the second point you make, but I would be
happy to hear some examples. I guess Ancient Greece and Rome would be two,
right?  



Second, A lot of those
"thousands/millions" are probably causing suffering for someone, so
if they wind up as corpses you're probably improving somebody else's life.

Sorry, but I think that is a pretty silly statement. Sure,
some people cause suffering for others, but I think they do so through their
actions not their mere existence. If someone thinks that another person’s
existence is what is causing him or her problems, I believe that person needs
to get past that. Plus, people can change. Someone who is causing suffering now
can encourage happiness later. If one just kills those people, we can never
know their true potential. That sounds a lot like giving up to me.

Also, I question whether a lot of those people really are
even causing suffering by their actions.

Hatter,

If the world didn't
have violence, poverty, death or hatred, it would be dull as dishwater.

I think that the world would actually be pretty exciting and
interesting. After all, people could stop wasting their time and energy
fighting wars and hating people and instead combine their resources to create
great technological innovations and the like.Your mileage may vary on that though.

I imagine that there would also be a lot more happiness
without all of those grim things. I do not know about you, but I think that
doing things that make one happy is very fun. Thus, I think that taking away such
barriers to that fun would be really neat.

 Thorn14,

Violence is a QUICK
answer, but in the long run it will screw you over.

I think this is a very good point.  I do not disagree that violence can “work” in
the short-term, but in the long-term, unless you happen to be invincible, it
can come back to hurt you.

InsanityAddict,

I agree about reporting bullying and such
as soon as it happens.

TuefelHundenIV

No worries folks.  While you non-violent non-barbarians are busy being morally superior when the time comes to act. Us noble savages will carry the load for you.