The Problem of Evil/Human Suffering

Gelzo

Can we agree that the assertion that everyone thinks of themselves as the good guy is an oversimplification?

Super Lazuli

"Can we agree that the assertion that everyone thinks of themselves as the good guy is an oversimplification?"

Probably.

"
Free will has to include the ability to be evil as well as good otherwise it isn't "free" will."

You'd need an objective definition of "Evil" for that, though. Not to mention one of "Free Will".

saladofstones

Yeah I can agree to that.

Well, lets start on a discussion on what makes something evil before we go into free will, even though I guess you need to have some measure of will to be moral.

Super Lazuli

"Well, lets start on a discussion on what makes something evil before we
go into free will, even though I guess you need to have some measure of
will to be moral."

Agreed. I'd put in my two cents, but honestly, I don't think much about this kind of thing.

TheyCallMeTomu

Rename the thread to "The Problem of Human Suffering."

Super Lazuli

Do it yourself.

No seriously, you can do it yourself.

thatguythere47

Okay, what makes something evil.

Evil act: It has to cause extreme, unjustifiable human suffering

Evil person: Has to cause extreme, unjustifiable human suffering.

That's all I got for now. 

Gelzo

I don't think it has to be extreme at all.

Punching your brother in the shoulder is evil because it is something you chose to do that causes unnecessary suffering, albeit minimally. Granted, "evil" does have more extreme connotations, but I find it easier to work with broad definitions.

And why for the love of Benji does it have to be limited to human suffering? I think we can agree that it's evil to torture pets for fun.

thatguythere47

Punching your brother in the shoulder isn't evil though, it's being a jerk. I think there should be a line between jerk and evil. 

But you are right about the human suffering bit, it should be changed to suffering in general. 

Gelzo

Why does it have to be extreme? Is there a fundamental difference between doing something that makes you a jerk and something that is evil other than some arbitrary line drawn?

No, I wouldn't call a person evil for doing that, but the action itself is evil.

thatguythere47

Well we're coming up with an arbitrary definition of evil so why not have an arbitrary line for where something goes from dick move to evil?

Or we could have it that an action doesn't need to be extreme but a person does. So punching your brother in the arm is evil, but you're not an evil person for it unless it becomes serious. 

TheyCallMeTomu

The problem of evil is really more the problem of suffering, so any dick move is evil in this context.

Tnophelia

I think it's more on the lines of Demonization vs. GushingAboutShowsYouLike.

Yes, I know potholes no longer work this way but I am too used to it now.

TheyCallMeTomu

Yeah, people can just search TVTropes if they want the link.

Gelzo

I think of a person as evil if, throughout whatever span of time in their life is most indicative of their current personality, they willingly generate more net social harm than good.

Khwarizmi

Evil is only a necessary component of free will because people will insist on using a weird definition of free will.

TheyCallMeTomu

I think that's a pretty good post to end on. Hopefully no one will post after it.

BecNoir

Me.