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Comments
Then I guess we're back to the limited resources, or we pattern the world after pre-Columbian Andes (since, given the restriction on macuahuitl, not even Mexico is kosher). Hm, perhaps you have another ideas?
But, you know what, I went for a digression, but the original issue was:
I guess it can be pulled off. Taken at face value, we can equip every character with, say, sabres. Or even better, there actually was quite a plenty of single-edged weapons that can safely compete with swords for the role of standard side weapon. That's a whole Alexpost waiting to happen.
Are sabers/sabres necessarily curved?
Looks like it's a tricky matter. Late patterns - XIX, XX Centuries - of cavalry sabres seem to be pretty straight. In general, when I say sabre, I think of the curved one, and so I'd assume without any further exposition.
Sabres are swords. As are... well, it gets a little complex, as I'm sure you and some others are aware. I guess we have to really nail down what makes a sword a sword. And to me, it's the physical mechanics of the weapon, which uses one dominant and one subordinate point of balance with the hand(s) between them, with the dominant point of balance generally being closer to the hilt than the end of the weapon.
So you could have say, machetes, which look like broad falchions, but don't use the physical mechanics of a sword made for battle. Although we can then make the argument that most fictional swords don't follow the physical mechanics of swords in the first place, and therefore aren't actually swords. If we accept my definition above. And if we accept all that, there's really no problem in the first place, because swords aren't at all overused in fiction!
/teacherhat
Anyway, I guess single-edged swords are pretty underused in European Middle Ages themed fiction. But the most bizarre hole in the fictitious fantasy armoury, to me, is the lack of poleaxes. Except for the fact that they aren't swords, they're kind of perfect unless you really need something that's especially long. Yet no-one uses them in fantasyland, despite the fact that you get an axe, a warhammer and two spear points in the same package. It thrusts, cuts, bludgeons, hooks, throws, slices, dices and basically does everything you could ask of a personal combat weapon that isn't a firearm.
I'm pretty sure the Inuit and the Native American First Nations didn't use swords. That's your sword-less fantasy setting, I guess.
You know Alex, I expected you'll take the bait and give a novel-length lecture on falchions, messers, dussacks, and all that single-edged crap in use from back in the Viking age to Renaissance and later.
That said, the polearms have already been discussed. Hard to expect you carry a spear as part of a suit. Poleaxes are a bit in the middle, if the handle is short I can picture them doubling as unusually long walking stick. Aaand... There's a story waiting to be written. A setting where everyone carries telescopic spears.
^^ Neither did Australian Aboriginals.
The closest I can come to an explanation is that at least Bronze Age technology is required to make workable swords, although some early examples of single-edged, sword-like weapons have been found that are made of wood. Stone works well enough for knives, axes and spears, but is too brittle for a sword. So metalworking is a definite requirement, and swords didn't really become highly sophisticated until the discovery of steel, anyway.
^ You're not my dad!
Anyway, it was less polearms in general and more the poleaxe specifically. Like, most fantasy settings don't have it. At all. The only fantasy book I can think of that has them is The Red Knight, which is excellent, kind of like Excalibur vs. Aliens. It takes more than poleaxes to make a book good, but -- no wait what am I talking about.
Also, single-edged swords are annoying because I try to Zwerchau and then lol nope blunt edge.
Guys, I get what Counterclock's saying. The core of his argument isn't that there's anything inherently bad about swords as the default "hero weapon", it's that using swords as the default "heroic weapon" is a symptom of a much, much larger case of unoriginality in fantasy worlds. And I agree with him: in my opinion, the default medieval backdrop is a horse that's been reanimated and beaten back to death a million times.
Wrong kind of Hispanic you got there, mate.
Truly the pinnacle of arcane warfare.
Except not really, because the default medieval backdrop is actually D&D, which is a very different thing. If you narrowed down fantasy works to those that actually got it more or less right, you'd find that actual medieval fantasy is a tiny minority -- most of it is in D&D's swirling maw of a feedback loop.
There are Hispanics that aren't from Mexico?
Of course not. Juan's clearly from a banana republic.
What would be more fun is people using all sort of other items as weapons. Especially common ones or ones that people don't usually see as weapons.
For example, shoves, spades, hoes, walking sticks, strollers, folding chairs, steering wheel locks, juggling pins, sharpened playing cards, bottles, ladders, buckets, and much more.
...though I'm admittedly thinking of a modern fantasy world with very high martial arts competency, including improvised weapon competency. Think kung fu movies set in the modern day, and add some magic to it. Modern-day wuxia I guess.
Alternatively, have people materialize their own weapons from thin air. Their own specific, characteristic weapons. Y'know, as much as people like Legendary Swords of Whatever, it's quite easy to design Legendary Staves of Whatever, just use an appropriate design for the knob. And they shouldn't be limited to physically-disinclined wizards; what happened to magic-users who are also competent melee fighters?
Ideally, you'd have a setting where everyone is standardly trained in martial arts, and even the frail-looking old wizard puts up a fight if you try to whack her or him.
Thank you Eelektross for your understanding, but your death will be a long agonizing one that draws out every essence of your core nonetheless. ^_^
Also, if we get more metaphorical, you could say the sword was humanity itself, in that the way our societies prospered and propagated was due to the underlying nature of the world being consistent with itself, and that most fantastical elements are merely set as a contrast to surface level conflicts and that any true implication to it's existence is never fully explored(at least in most fantasy).
though I do not begrudge a lot of fantasy for not doing deep explorations of it's own limited understanding, that is precisely why I argue that at the very least, they should be given an example from which to build upon. If that made any sense.
Ooooh, Fantasy thread, huh?
I've currently been reading up on various mythologies and on iron-age and medieval weaponry and armor in case I ever wanted to write my own fantasy work. I have to say, it's very interesting stuff.
I'd love to see this mainly so arrogant kung fu dude and arrogant wizard can duke it out. I mean, Ivan Drago vs Saruman.
Could you elaborate? I'm interested.
Of course, there's also Divinity Rights Management, as a result of folks creating alternate identities, accumulating fake renown, or otherwise try to game the system.
The other side of the coin are your open source folks. Taught the basics by elemental bodhisattvas, they are encouraged to come up with new martial arts techniques, artfact schematics, sorcerous spells, charms, and alchemical recipes by themselves and share them.
Sounds like fun.
And, well, in any case the real history was awesomely more nuanced than it is reflected in fantasy fiction. Once in a while you get someone aware of that, and great stuff comes out.
Such as?
I don't really fully grasp this. Can you elaborate?
The Red Knight, The Witcher. I would say A Song Of Ice And Fire, but mostly relative to how fantasy is usually done. It's closer to the reality than most, but Martin doesn't seem to know how to relate the individual facts he knows about the Middle Ages together. All the same, it's a very obvious and currently popular example of a medieval fantasy that errs towards realism.
In a less writey sense, Demon's Souls and Dark Souls show a very clear understanding of the the aesthetics and folklore of the Middle Ages. It's not strictly "accurate", but its anachronisms are implemented with the understanding that they're anachronisms, and used in very deliberate ways.
I had Guy Gavriel Kay in mind. Yeah, I spoke of Tigana before, and it's a pretty safe wager that I'll do it again. I haven't read his other novels, Tigana is said to be the most "fantastic" of them, but in any case others are also based on relatively under-used parts of Medieval history.
One thing I found particularly interesting was how in Dark Souls, one faction had the absurdly evil-sounding name of "Chaos Witches," but it turned out that they were just fire-mages, which makes perfect sense when you apply modern thermodynamics knowledge to a medieval setting.
"Divinity Rights Management" is a joke on "Digital Rights Management", an inconvenient mess that leads folks to jealously guard their intellectual properties and causes much inconvenience for the consumers, but is sadly necessary because of all the folks trying to get stuff for free.
So in the story, you can't use your blessings unless you're in sunlight so the goddess of the sun can confirm your identity, or the unique command word you would use to access your strength-boosting skill has been appropriated by someone else.
Sounds like a pretty nice idea you've got there. Experts at Baen Books could milk it for a dozen-part series, I'm pretty sure, heh heh. Er, I mean, what you came up with sounds like an idea that's got a pretty nice potential.
I'd agree with this if it ever actually worked.
Pardon?