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Blanket dismissal of anime dubs
The president of the anime club at my school hates dubs. And unfortunately, most people who attend the club are also okay with that.
When asked about it, he says that the English voice acting industry isn't good because English voice talent isn't paid well; a lot of English VAs do it part-time. While in Japan, you have big-name people, including idols, doing voice acting full-time. He estimates that about 90% of dubs are bad, 5% are good, and 5% are awesome.
But what about the other benefits of dubs, such as greater immersion? For starters, not having to look at the bottom of the screen (and have it partly cover stuff) is nice. But more importantly, it's just more natural to hear a voice in one's own language, than to hear gibberish and mentally substitute the words you're seeing into their voice. And really key dramatic lines are better when delivered (well) than when merely imagined.
Not to mention that English dubs tend to lower the pitch of characters whose original voices were annoyingly squeaky or high-pitched and airy. This is especially relevant for female characters who are the badass action girl type and who don't quite fit with high squeaky voices (though that's not to say it can't ever work).
Can someone help me understand where he's coming from with this? I suspect it's because he's drawing on a different experience with dubs than mine. I know that older dubs have a reputation for being crappy, but a lot of newer dubs are great, and he maintains that even the newer ones are crappy.
Comments
Is it possible he is a weeaboo or otaku of some kind?
I've actually been watching things with subtitles for most of my existence, so I actively prefer movies with subs even in English, for ease of clarity.
I did not know Japanese VAs were paid well.
I did not know idols were paid well.
I don't really have immersion issues with subtitles. For me it's pretty easy nowadays and I'd put watching subtitles and watching a dub on the same level.
One case in which preferred the English dub to the Japanese dub was when this exact thing happened in reverse (Anemone's voice is higher pitched in English, making her sound more playful and emotional, which I like better).
As for my stance on English Dubs: There are lots of great ones, at least 70% are great-good, I prefer watching subs but I also enjoy watching (good) dubs that at least attempt to do justice to the story. I will say that a VA is more likely to annoy me in English than in Japanese (ie Japanese will have high pitched VAs which is a thing I like, English will have gruff annoying VAs which I don't, so this is mostly a case of personal preference).
I don't think "type" matters as much as "personality". Somebody like Tsubasa (Symphogear) has a personality that calls for Nana Mizuki's cold, tough voice, somebody like Chris (Symphogear) has a personality that calls for Ayahi Takagaki's angry yet playful voice. I've never heard a high pitched voice on a character who didn't deserve one.
Should watch the English dub of Bible Black.
Yes, they are in general a lot better than they were in the 90s and such, so a lot of the criticism about them is kind of unfounded (people still complain that dubs change plot points and censor stuff and... that's not really true anymore). And this thing that that person said:
is strange. First of all, idols tend to suck at doing voices (see AKB0048) because voice acting is not even remotely similar to singing or modeling (and really, even professional non-voice actors tend to not be great at voice acting) so having them do voice acting really isn't a plus. More than that though, seiyuu really don't make much money from voicing anime. All the big-name ones make nearly all of their money through selling CDs and doing live events and stuff.
That said,
You don't have to "imagine" how a line is delivered; you can hear it! Whether you actually understand the dialogue or not doesn't really prevent you from feeling the emotions the actor is conveying. Also sometimes it really isn't more natural to hear a voice in your own language, mostly because anime dialogue is kind of inherently unnatural, especially when it's translated from Japanese to English.
Significantly changing voices like that is... well, I guess it's not necessarily bad, but the thing is that if you're used to hearing a character or a type of character portrayed in a particular way, it's going to be weird if you hear them voiced completely differently from that. So while it probably won't be an issue if you're someone who only or primarily watches dubs, it's going to be pretty jarring if you primarily watch with the original audio and only occasionally watch dubs, especially if it's a dub for something you've already seen.
Oh also dub actors always sound really funny when they say Japanese names, but that's a really minor thing and I don't think it's a common problem people have with dubs.
I wasn't thinking of significant changes. I was thinking of very minor changes. For example, compare, in Kiddy Grade, Éclair's Japanese and English voices. Her English voice is on average slightly lower-pitched.
That's the kind of difference I'm talking about.
At anime club tonight one of the things we watched was Kimi no Todoke (or whatever is the name of the series that has this girl whose social presence scares lots of people except this one guy who likes her and she actually likes him back). I felt her voice was a bit too high and airy at times.
I've felt that several other female characters I'm familiar with have voices slightly too high. One, though, has a voice slightly too low; that would be Nagisa from AKB0048. (I'm going by the characters' appearance and their role in their respective stories.)
(Incidentally, I think that, in Eureka Seven, Dominic's Japanese voice is slightly too low. I can see your point about Anemone, though. But I also think that Eureka's English voice is slightly too high, while Eureka's Japanese voice sounds fine.)
I can't say I readily agree with this statement, but this may be related to my watching much more drama than comedy.
Clearly, this doesn't include Southeast Asian dubs.
Oh God, that's from Animax Asia, isn't it?
You know, the people who were responsible for this abomination.
Nope. That Transformers one was by Omni Productions. I'm not sure where the DBZ one came from, but I'm pretty sure it was "official" somehow, since I recall a home video release of the Lord Slug movie that was like that.
And yeah, their K-On dub was horrid. I thought of linking to a clip of that, but I couldn't find one that was outrageously/hilariously bad. Although their Hayate the Combat Butler dub was acceptable for me. At least, for a Southeast Asian dub.
I'm going to go against the grain here and say that I generally prefer English dubs over original Japanese voiceovers - I find the Japanese language to be somewhat ugly-sounding.
But don't get me started on plainly terrible Serbian dubs.
That thing is amazing. I wish I could find clips of Grimlock's distinctly unimpressive voice.
If anything, I'm genuinely curious now... (I promise not to say that you didn't warn me.)
It's also very similar to Serbian's, but I still find it kinda... I dunno, harsh.
^ ninja. Hold on, I'll link something in a bit.
@Fuschlatz: Dragon Ball.
Yeah, I got that message too. Any non-YouTube source you could link us to?
Odd that Funimation would care about the Serbian dub of DBZ anywhere outside of Serbia.
I found this on Dailymotion, they sound like they're having a collective constipation.
Even odder that it seems to work here...
And yeah, Spanish dubs are sweet.
(Unless they're Spain's).
Edit: ^, ^^ It works here, too.
I actually like how deep Nagisa's voice is as of Next Stage (she sounded a bit weird in First Stage), while it lends to a lot of line grumbling I think it's fitting for her now.
And I'm starting to think Nagisa and Chieri are the only two Kenkyuusei with good voices, the rest range from decent to whatever Suzuko's VA seems to be trying to do.
I don't remember much of Kimi ni Todoke's voice acting, sorry, but I think I understand where you're coming from.
@DYRE: In this context I thought he was referring to 'idols' who were big VAs. Not so much Shoko Nakagawa (Or of course, AKB48, more Nana Mizuki/Aki Toyosaki. They tend to have everything idols do.
^^
That's the first time I've heard that. I think it's one of the better-sounding languages I've heard, especially compared with English and Spanish.
My opinion on the OP: I generally prefer subs (it helps that I can read them quickly enough to look at the scene while the subtitle is on the screen), and my experience with dubs so far has been mostly bad; even supposedly high-quality dubs like the one for Darker than Black sound bad to me. Baccano!'s dub was spectacular, though, I will admit that.
When I watch something, I like to watch all of it; not just the bottom two inches of it.
(Although my video player lets me move subs and I stick them in the middle of the screen but w/e)
I generally don't care unless one or the other really sucks.
^^ I've never had any problem reading the subtitles while concentrating on the video. And not just for anime. If the subtitles and dialogue are languages I can understand, for some reason I don't mind having subtitles, despite them not being necessary. But I don't like the idea of moving them to the middle of the screen. Subs are one of those "in the corner of my eye" details.
Specific example that came to mind when I read this is Midori in My-HiME. I didn't like how high-pitched she sounded in Japanese, if I recall correctly. (I was mostly watching in English. Maybe will rewatch in Japanese some other time) She sounded like she was trying too hard to hide her age. For some reason, "trying too hard" is a bad thing for me.
Anyway, I don't really think I have a preference, but mainly because I'm not that familiar with English dubbing of anime.
"Here" as in...?
I'm very middle-of-the-road with respect to this issue. Some shows simply sound better in Japanese or English, or need to be in one or the other to best serve the story. Something like Baccano! works best with period slang and silly accents all over the place; meanwhile, most of the wordplay and cultural stuff in Bakemonogatari is untranslatable (...although a dub could be interesting for exactly that reason). Plus, sometimes it just works better because of the actors in question: Chris Patton's turn as Satou in Welcome to the NHK makes it hard for me to watch the original dub, while the Japanese cast of Madoka Magica simply owns their roles in a way that the English cast probably never will.
The point is, it all depends on the circumstances and the execution—and, like anything else, first watches and arbitrary personal preference. I am in the minority when I say that I think that Azumanga Daioh simply works better in Japanese, but that's at least partly because when I first watched Osaka's infamous knife scene, it was in Japanese. I fell in love with it, so it stays with me.
Speaking of which, while squeaky female voices in Japanese dubs can be annoying as all get out, I still find the Japanese language really nice and cool to listen to, much like French or Gaelic. The sounds just appeal to me. Plus, the more I recognise of it, the more amusing it is to pick out the bizarre grammatical constructions.
P.S. To give an example, the fact that one compresses one's lips rather than rounds them when making the Japanese u and w sounds is really fun to do and sounds really interesting. Likewise, the myriad syllabic nasal constructions in Okinawan (nnsu, etc.) and the manifold mutations of r just tickle me.
P.P.S. My debatably autistic tendencies are showing, aren't they?
All Nines:
Really? Man, I found Baccano!'s dub insanely awkward and stilted in parts (though it was mostly good) whereas DTB is one of the only dubs I've ever seen that almost completely avoided that.JHM:
Pretty sure you aren't. Lots of people hate that dub.Hell, I like the dub and I watched it that way first, and I would still say it works better in Japanese.
Thread in general: Yeah, there are plenty of good dubs; people have lingering assumptions from a decade ago when Cowboy Bebop really was the exception and not the rule. Most people who say that all dubs are shit have only actually watched one or two. That said, I do respect wanting to watch things in their original language when possible.
Fully agreed there. (Goddamn, episode 13 of NHK still gets to me) And you make good points in general, too.