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I seem to be drawn to arrogant characters in fiction
So I was sitting around, making that DILP discussion we've had how many times already when it hit me. "Why do I dislike the DILP effect, personally?"
I thought "because it detracts from the character's personality?"
Then I examined the characters that sprung to mind immediately after thinking of the phrase "Draco in Leather Pants". From Saruman to Ganondorf to Loki to Vriska to even poor Magus, they all had one personality trait in common: they were arrogant!
I can't explain why I like arrogant characters so much. Partially, I think it's because you know inherently that they're going to fall flat on their asses in the near future. Take Magus, for example.
Magus is a mage from a Magic Kingdom that existed tens of thousands of years before the game's start. Said Magic Kingdom decided one day that dicking around with Lavos (aka bedbug Cthulhu) was a good idea. This goes as well as you expect it to go. In the ensuing nuclear holocaust, Magus loses his sister to Lavos and is shunted forward in time, where goblins find him. Eventually he becomes King of the Goblins and starts a war with humanity. His secret plan is, of course, to summon Lavos and kill it. This would be all fine and dandy if a big part of the plan wasn't him facing Mr. "I Destroyed An Entire Civilization" BY HIMSELF out of sheer pride.
In the backstory, Magus kills the mentor of another protagonist (Frog) seemingly for shits and giggles.This sets into motion the chain of events which leads to Frog attaining the Masamune, a blade Magus is weak to. Granted Crono and assholes needed to snap him out of his drunken stupor, but still. Magus' actions also indirectly lead to Crono discovering the Bad Future, which sets into motion the rest of the game.
Magus is eventually defeated in a big climactic showdown, but through a series of rather silly events is shunted back in time to the Magic Kingdom!
Magus realizes that this is his opportunity to exact revenge on Lavos (again), but rather than asking for help he-you guessed it!-stupidly puts on his Arrogance Goggles and decides to face Lavos himself. Because that worked so well the first time, didn't it? Note that by helping Queen Zeal (who is also his mother, but that's unrelated) imprison the Gurus, he actually puts the finishing touches on Zeal's suicide plan by quelling any opposition. This means that he isn't accepting any help or trying to prevent Lavos from rising in the first place: nope, he just wants to kill it out of pride now.
In the end, Magus is forced to watch as his sister still gets killed/absorbed, the Magic Kingdom still blows up and he has to watch as his "great magical power" fails AGAIN. He is eventually confronted by the protagonists on a mountain. At this point, the player is given the choice to put the cherry on Magus' karma sundae. Here's how:
You can put Glenn/Frog in your party. By choosing to kill Magus, Glenn/Frog and Magus enter a duel which is really hard to lose involuntarily. Remember, Magus is responsible for why Frog is there in the first place, indirectly: if he hadn't killed Cyrus, he'd...probably still be in the same spot he is, only without sword-Kermit out for his blood.
So let's recap, people. Magus is ultimately done in by his utter arrogance, his unwillingness to accept help and the consequences of his previous evil actions. Pretty sweet, huh?
Again, I'm not really sure if this is the real reason or the only reason why I like arrogant characters in fiction. I just want to put this out. Thoughts?
Comments
Is it wrong that my first thought was that I missed out on snowcloning glenn's "I seem to be drawn to blue-haired girls in anime" thread?
Wow, I didn't notice that parallel.
Well? Thoughts?
I find arrogant characters annoying for much the same reason I find real arrogant people annoying.
Arrogant Villains can chew the scenery more and make the fight more cinematic.
Take Ganondorf for example, in OotS you walk in on him playing foreboding music. Any pragmatic villain would've simply attacked you lieu you entering the door.
So, uh... you have explained a pretty nice story, and also have provided a conclusion of what this 'process' entails, but I think you haven't really told us what you find so attractive about it. Is it the karmic justice inherent in that process, or what? Or the Greek sense of tragedy and impending doom?
As for me, I agree with Lazuli. Arrogant protagonists are not sympathetic, and arrogant villains (that is, villains where this is a major characteristic, and not those who just happen to be arrogant besides everything else) are almost always overdone. Though I admit arrogance in antagonists does have its place for more or less exactly the reason you describe: It allows the protagonists to triumph without either getting too unrealistically strong or having too much luck (which in a way is cheating).
Still, I prefer other characters. It's kinda funny. I used to have a big thing about loyalty in characters, in both directions. That is, either for the very loyal characters, like Deornoth in Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, or even more so the very treacherous, like Saruman, Ganossa in Silent Möbius or also Folken in Escaflowne (who is both a traitor and very loyal). But these days, it's the exact opposite... I'm tending more towards the idealist if equally doomed to failure rebels and radicals, like Anders in Dragon Age 2...
Early in the morning, so im making this quick
It's the latter. Magus' story was basically a greek tragedy: he was an otherwise noble character driven to terrible things by his pride, and eventually he paid for it with his life.
Depends on the protagonist's other traits/how the story treats him, really. If an arrogant protagonist is almost always supported by the narrative and other characters (such as "elf" scenarios in badly written fantasy), I agree with you. However, if the protagonist gets knocked on his ass hard because he's an arrogant prick, I think it's fun to watch.
I'd chalk it up to a matter of opinion.
Except that, canonically speaking, he doesn't.
Well I guess in that sense arrogance is a character flaw that easily lends itself to character development, or a plot device to bust them if they don't.
In CC it's mentioned he survives, yeah, but I have issues with considering CC canon.
But canonically in CT he still survives.
Frog's entire character arc is about him growing above things such as simple revenge in order to become a knight that Cyrus can be proud of. Him killing Magus, who at that point is no longer a threat, would go entirely against that.
...And yet over the course of the game, Frog kills loads of sentient creatures, some of whom do not attack unless he intentionally provokes them.
Which kind of renders that moot, doesn't it?
Please tell me this is a joke.
For one, the Mystics are explicitly stated to be sentient. Granted in most situations they're trying to kill you too, but there exist easily avoidable encounters where Mystics are just plain minding their own business.
If it's a moral question of "to kill sentient beings" vs "not to kill sentient beings", then it came a little too late.
So let me get this straight. You are comparing a willingness to kill members of a hostile invasion force, during a war, to a willingness to kill a non-combatant.
OK, I just...I just want to kill him because there's a bit of poetic justice in it.
Magus does bad stuff over the course of the game. Even disregarding killing Cyrus in cold blood, Magus started a war between humans and Mystics that caused the deaths of thousands. He is just as responsible for the modern-day Mystics' violently racist tendencies as Ozzie is.
And if he truly wanted to save Schala and prevent Lavos from nuking everything, the best way would be to prevent the Ocean Palace Incident from occurring. He basically said "screw that" by
1. sealing the Gate to and from 12,000 BC and preventing Crono and assholes from doing anything about it. Note that Crono and co. have no idea who he is and as long as he doesn't take off his cowl or shout "I'm Magus!" they would have no means to know. Unless Crono is psychic or something.
2. helping his batshit insane mother seal away Melchior, one of three characters who knew exactly what was going on, wanted to stop it and had the means to.
Why does he do so? Because his arrogance prevents him from accepting outside help! He doesn't want to kill Lavos to stop it from destroying everything, he wants to kill it out of his stubborn pride!
He's almost as guilty for the Ocean Palace incident occurring as Zeal and Dalton are. Letting him get away scot-free just doesn't sit right with me.
Also, it makes a fun play on words. Magus is the Reaper, right? Well, he's going to "reap the whirlwind", so to speak.
What's the original timeline like without his interference?
The original timeline still has Magus starting a war and killing Cyrus in cold blood. Everything basically goes the way it does in the altered timeline (minus Frog growing some balls), but when Magus faces off with Lavos instead of being sent to 12,000 BC he gets killed like a dumbass.
So yeah, Magus is still just as bad and he has a shorter lifespan in the original timeline.
...Or do you mean the timeline where he didn't become the Prophet?
I meant 12000 BC timeline in which he doesn't interfere with 12000 BC.
Oh, that.
In the 12,000 B.C timeline, Queen Zeal still goes off the deep end and imprisons the Gurus. However, Magus' interference leads to Queen Zeal becoming immortal instead of getting killed by Lavos, and the creation of the Black Omen.
Does the Ocean Palace still become constructed?
Yup.
How much do you love gilgamesh
93.4
almost as much as i love kotomine
you're a man with impeccable taste
i'm wealthy too
no you're not satan