How hard it is to make a rules system for magic

ClockworkUniverse

Yeah, but it gets used as a currency a lot, so it's kind of in the same set in terms of fantasy settings.

Nova

Hm...well, I want to keep the setting as agnostic as possible, but would a "reverse time" thing suffice? 

 Whatever way you want to go about it.

Eelektross

Actually, scratch the "can't heal wounds" part. Clerics are cool.

Kraken

"Yeah, but a logical extension of that would be to have people who are innately talented at that sort of thing and don't need extensive training to become wizards. So basically D&D sorcerers."

"And if you want me to include sorcerers, wouldn't that defeat the point of slowly moving away from D&D like you want me to?"

Success in art comes from being really skilled, having something new and interesting to say (possessing a different mindset), bringing a new perspective on things (being "original"), or being supported by lots and lots of other skilled folks.

Nobody's just "talented". That's the thing; by applying the same sort of logic to magic that you do to art, you circumvent magic just being something that people do and make it something wild, exciting, and unpredictable.

Nyktos

> That was a common deck? Those forty pieces of cardboard could literally have put me through college.



I doubt it was all that common, but at the time it probably wouldn't have cost more than a tier 1 Standard deck does these days.

Eelektross

I had an idea.

So...instead of passively absorbing magic from the air when not casting a spell, mages would draw magic in preparation for casting a spell. After casting a spell, a mage's mana meter would increase instead of decrease.

Casting too many spells would cause the mana meter to be filled up, resulting in the mage being unable to cast at all. Depending on the spell and/or rate of spells fired per second, it could even lead to a backfire, leading to various unpleasant magical effects. (I'll have to work that one out.) Attempting to cast a spell that would fill up your mana bar too much would simply...fail.

Spells themselves require mental rituals to channel focus with. The more powerful a spell, the more numerous a ritual involved would be. A simple fireball spell would likely only require one momentary ritual: however, more complex spells would require more (and more complex) rituals. 

Emotions would also influence magic. Anger, for example, would make magic stronger but also more destructive. The more intense an emotion, the more powerful the effect. 

So guys, what do you think? It needs a little polishing, but I worked with the tools given to me.

Nova

Casting too many spells would cause the mana meter to be filled up, resulting in the mage being unable to cast at all. Depending on the spell and/or rate of spells fired per second, it could even lead to a backfire, leading to various unpleasant magical effects. (I'll have to work that one out.) 

Uh. Notes from my magic system:

A Mage’s connection to the Aether is responsible for allowing them to use magic at all. Connecting to the Aether allows mana to flow through a Mage’s veins- the more powerful the Mage, the more mana can flow through their veins at once, and the more their resistance to it increases.

However, a Mage’s resistance only goes so far. If a Mage channels too much Mana, they will enter a state known as ‘mana exhaustion’. Their connection to the Aether weakens, and their minds and bodies become extremely exhausted. This is very dangerous on the battlefield.

If a Mage pushes themselves too far, they can break through this wall, and access their regular reserves of mana. However, their bodies are pushed too far for their natural resistance to mana to overcome mana’s toxicity at that point, and their mana begins to poison them. This is known as ‘Aether poisoning’, and the only known cure to it involves bleeding a Mage to get the mana out. The more a Mage bleeds, the more mana flows out of them. This often becomes a tricky balance between letting a Mage bleed out enough to not be poisoned to death and not letting a Mage bleed out enough to bleed to death.

If a Mage pushes themselves even further, they can permanently impair their bodies- weakening the structure of their hearts and lungs. From then on, even entering ‘mana exhaustion’ can poison the mage, and channelling mana at all becomes tiring.

:v

Eelektross

That is uncanny.

I was thinking more "Shooting in ME1, but instead of the gun overheating it explodes and turns Shepard into a toad." Your line of thought seems to be thinking of magic as similar to physical activity.

lrdgck

How about just getting rid of creation and/or transmutation magic?

Eelektross

Even Conjure Non-Pineapple Pizza? No way, Jose.

Nova

I was thinking more "Shooting in ME1, but instead of the gun overheating it explodes and turns Shepard into a toad." Your line of thought seems to be thinking of magic as similar to physical activity.

Nah, mine is more "Magic is actively bad for you, and the more you use it the worse it gets".

First-stage magic is like physical activity, up to mana exhaustion. Pushing yourself beyond that is deadly and can and will kill you.

Icalasari

I'd make conjuring/alteration magic the hardest class to master (since you're manipulating stuff on an atomic level), and throw res into that as the most powerful spell (if you plan to have any res) , making it require being on certain magic lines, using multiple mages, using powerful items, and very complex rituals since you're trying to recreate a dead person right down to the very way energy was going through their brain at the time/trying to change time itself (if the time solution, then time travel itself the hardest to the point where it's practically main quest material)

Eelektross

Hm.

Spells themselves require mental rituals to channel focus with. The more powerful a spell, the more numerous the rituals involved would be. A simple fireball spell would likely only require one momentary ritual: however, more complex spells would require more (and more complex) rituals.

As rituals are necessary for the focus of magic, they themselves are inherently magical and need to be "powered" by magic, so to speak. As such, each ritual would require that the caster absorb magic for it to be performed properly. A successful spell cast would still lead to mana buildup, which I will explain in the next paragraph.

A mage has a sort of limit to how much mana buildup she can take. This limit increases the more powerful a mage gets. If the mana buildup reaches its limit, any and all spells she would try and cast would fail automatically. Attempting to cast a spell that would cause more mana buildup than the limit would allow would simply fail.

There. No more detrimental effects!

Nova

I am of the opinion that the detrimental effects worked better. It became a system of risk versus reward- are the detrimental effects worth the spell you're going to cast?

Eelektross

I thought you were upset because I seemed to be ripping off you.

Nova

No, I just brought it up because they were pretty similar and I thought that was interesting.

Eelektross

Well, as for magical effects...

If it's a minor spell that goes awry, I guess it could be something minor, like being burned or blinded for a few minutes. If it's a really big spell, like Mini Nuke, it could be something like "your head and everyone else within a 20-mile radius' head explodes: everyone else gets a small save to live but you automatically fail and die instantaneously".

Nova

I don't think either of those are 'minor', especially in gameplay terms.

Eelektross

I'm talking minor 1st degree burns on the palms of your hands.

Nova

Enough to stop you holding your weapons. Not that a mage needs a weapon, except if they're at that point they do. :V

Saigyouji

A few minutes of blindness is practically a death sentence in combat.

Eelektross

Fine, a few seconds of minor myopia.

Nova

Or, I dunno, directly losing out on HP. Being blinded for 1d4 rounds. Somethin'.

Don't forget that in order to incur the penalty, a mage has already had to render themselves unable to cast spells. Hampering them too much further from there is likely a death sentence in combat.

Eelektross

Well here's a list of possible main quests I have:

• The King-of-Rats has taken over a medieval paramilitary organization and has set his sights on conquering a weakened nation. You need to stop him!


• You fellows are agents for the Empire, sort of like medieval-ish James Bonds. You live a life of espionage and gratuitous chase scenes. 


• There's a war going on between two nations, and if it continues another Third Reich-analogue nation will swoop in and conquer everyone. It was sparked because of a missing crown prince of some sort. You need to find the missing prince and restore peace!


• You're vigilantes, people who earlier in their lives were victimized by criminals. Together, you fight crime!

Icalasari

Maybe instead of blindness, extra sensitivity to light. So if you're fighting during a bright, sunny day, avoid spells that may cause that backlash lest you be unable to see. But during a dark night or in a dark cave, you couod use the spell and even want the side effect to possibly occur as a sort of perverse Night Vision



Detrimental effects that can become useful if a clever player gets hit with them are infinitely more fun

Saturn

I'm having a few similar problems with my RP's system. I wanted to make this RP with the idea in mind that I could create an interesting economic system based around the trading and selling of souls, and the power it brings.

Icalasari

^ Souls seem like they'd be pretty susceptible to inflation as a currency :P

Eelektross

So we started playing today.

They are currently in the village of Nematode. It is night-time. The magic knight went to investigate separately, while the Barb and Thief Guy were assaulted by a monster. Magic Knight dug up a rumor about a reward for a monster that killed and ate the daughter of a rich family a few weeks ago. 

Currently Barb and Thief Guy are recuperating from the assault in the tavern. Ninja Guy is looking after them, and Magic Knight is digging for more info.

I dunno where to go with this. Suggestions?

Saigyouji

You know, you should really come up with an outline first.

Eelektross

I have a vague outline of what's going to happen.

After finishing this quest, they obtain evidence of something else going on and take a ship. Unfortunately, the ship is assaulted by pirates. The pirates take a prominent individual hostage, and the protagonists have to Die Hard it out. After defeating the pirates, they go to this really big merchant city where they're given a myriad of major quest options.