the terms "husband" and "wife" (especially when used for same-sex couples)

glennmagusharvey

They seem especially weird when used to describe same-sex couples.  The terms are basically based in heterosexual marriage and gender roles anyway, aren't they?  So I guess if you define them as "married man" and "married woman" respectively you could technically say that a pair of gay men married to each other are both each others' husbands and a pair of lesbian women married to each other are both each others' wives.

But...is it just me, or are the two terms basically intertwined enough that there's basically an expectation of a "husband" to be complemented by a "wife" and vice versa?  In which case it doesn't really work for same-sex couples, and thus I find it weird that people actually use these terms for same-sex couples.

Not to mention they're strongly suggestive of gender roles, which makes me prefer the gender-neutral term "spouse" for all couples, heterosexual or homosexual.  Especially since I believe in equality of the genders anyway.

Octo

But...is it just me, or are the two terms basically intertwined enough that there's basically an expectation of a "husband" to be complemented by a "wife" and vice versa?

Only as part of social heteronormativity to be overcome. That expectation is routed in the expectation that a man and a woman marry, and not two men and two women. In the same vein, I think 'husband' and 'wife' are only suggestive of gender roles because people expect gender roles from men and women, period.

But of course, 'spouse' works, too.

glennmagusharvey

Well I guess the key question is whether the terms can be dissociated from heteronormative gender roles, or are inherently an expression of them.

Counterclock

I think, so long as heteronormative as a ideal is present within the main-stream subconsciousness, that people are going to use the term "Husband and Wife" regardless of how much it fits or not.

Octo

I think the use of 'wife' and 'husband' in regards to homosexual couples is a good thing, actually, since I think it actually goes against heteronormativity. Using the same terms as heterosexual couples do normalizes homosexual couples. I mean, heterosexual couples say "my husband" or "my wife"... and then homosexual couples should use the somewhat more technical sounding "my spouse"? There simply is a difference. If a man shouldn't call his husband his husband, then that somehow makes homosexual marriage seem less valid, if you catch my drift...

Also, if we logically follow the argument about connotations with gender roles to its ends, then 'husband' and 'wife' shouldn't be used in heterosexual marriages, either, for exactly that reason. While maybe ideally not a bad idea, such a lingual shift would de facto never work.

glennmagusharvey

I mean, heterosexual couples say "my husband" or "my wife"... and then homosexual couples should use the somewhat more technical sounding "my spouse"? There simply is a difference. If a man shouldn't call his husband his husband, then that somehow makes homosexual marriage seem less valid, if you catch my drift...

See I have the converse (or contrapositive?) opinion wherein, as a heterosexual, I'd prefer not to call my opposite-sex partner my "wife" or "husband", and I'd rather use the term "spouse", because I find "wife" and "husband" not just heteronormatively loaded by gender-role loaded.

Central Avenue

Personally, if I ever get married, I'd want to be called a wife, because I'll have gone through a lot of trouble to be able to be considered a wife.

I'm referring to being trans*, of course, but it wouldn't surprise me if the same were true of a lot of gay and lesbian couples and their struggles to get legally married.