General politics thread (was: General U.S. politics thread)

Stormtroper

^^ I envy your internet experience.
Regardless, I've noticed the phrase and the general idea of "oppressed-ness as clout" has become less and less prevalent, while saying things the right way becomes increasingly important.

fourteenwings

The principal said she was not given a reason she was asked to resign, but believes complaints the school board received from parents over the lesson on the Michelangelo statue played a role in what happened.

Does not seem legit. Especially with;

Tallahassee Classical, which follows a curriculum from Hillsdale College, the conservative, Christian institution in Michigan that has helped launch dozens of “classical” charter schools nationwide, is required to teach Renaissance art to sixth-graders.

ie they were already doing this

I get that the "Please stop reading Gender Queer to our 12 year olds" thing might be descending into a purity spiral (an outcome that I really should have seen coming) but this seems a bit off.

But also yeah there's time in the future to teach kids about naked European statues if they don't live in Europe (teenage years?).

Essentially; big media should take a break before jumping at people seeking to confirm their narratives because a lot of them might just have unrelated axes to grind.

fourteenwings

Also;

I'd be hesitant to say this (which ironically smacks of that same "check your privilege" sentiment that I doubt you're fond of).

I believe in class differences. In fact, I don't just "believe" in them, they're quite observably real.

even if some of them might seem pointless or insignificant or easily solvable to an onlooker

Well yeah everyone can have problems but the issue in question was definitely not in them.

glennmagusharvey

Stormtroper wrote: »

^^ I envy your internet experience.
Regardless, I've noticed the phrase and the general idea of "oppressed-ness as clout" has become less and less prevalent, while saying things the right way becomes increasingly important.

I guess I just hang out in the wrong parts of the internet, lol.

Does not seem legit. Especially with;

Tallahassee Classical, which follows a curriculum from Hillsdale College, the conservative, Christian institution in Michigan that has helped launch dozens of “classical” charter schools nationwide, is required to teach Renaissance art to sixth-graders.

ie they were already doing this

Considering that, as you pointed out, "they were already doing this", the following is particularly noteworthy:

Barney Bishop III, the chair of the school board and a lobbyist, confirmed to The Post that he gave Carrasquilla an ultimatum following complaints from three parents who believed the material on “David” was “controversial” and not age-appropriate for their children. Bishop, who did not say why he asked Carrasquilla to resign on the advice of the school’s lawyers, told The Post that there were several issues with the principal, including not notifying parents ahead of time that their children would be shown the Renaissance statue.

So, yes, the parents should have known this was going to be a thing ahead of time. As the excerpt you quoted notes, it's in the curriculum they follow.

fourteenwings wrote: »

Also;

I'd be hesitant to say this (which ironically smacks of that same "check your privilege" sentiment that I doubt you're fond of).

I believe in class differences. In fact, I don't just "believe" in them, they're quite observably real.

even if some of them might seem pointless or insignificant or easily solvable to an onlooker

Well yeah everyone can have problems but the issue in question was definitely not in them.

Well, I dunno if it was just poor phrasing on your part, but my comment was basically just a sidenote noting that "money doesn't solve all problems", or "it's not like the rich don't have problems". I haven't read the article about the equestrian; this was just a tangential thought.

glennmagusharvey

Meanwhile, elsewhere in Florida...

https://www.tampabay.com/investigations/2023/03/12/tampa-teen-was-racially-harassed-by-her-teacher-hes-bullied-students-years/

(Unlike what the URL name suggests, the article is more about recounting the litany of complaints against the teacher as opposed to focusing on just one complaint.)

lrdgck

So, the dude had, like 25+ years' worth of harassment record involving about every societal taboo there was to break. Women, gays, Jews, blacks, trans, it's like he had a list to cross off. The dude even got to harass foreigners, despite not even moving one bit. I mean, at this point I'm no longer outraged, I'm impressed. Either he has, like, an entire library of blackmail material on everyone and their dog even vaguely involved in Floridian schooling, or I have no idea how it could ever make sense.

I was like, the fella looks girlish, then I read fella was trans. I'm not sure what to make of it. The teacher does have a sort of a cross between Trollface and Emperor Palpatine look though, which seems quite appropriate.

What surprised me was that folks seemed to get riled up the most by a comment about gays in a church. I mean, after all that siegheiling in public, this is like the worst thing about a murderer were that he jaywalked.

Although the wake-up bar is an idea I gotta try out one of these days.

Tangentially, this article is also a good example of that sort of racial identity stuff I mentioned earlier. As far as I'm concerned, every person on a photo wouldn't look too out of place here, even the biracial girl. Even the hair is nothing that a good hairdresser couldn't arrange. Although, I can't really produce a wider query, so by necessity that's just me, unfortunately. But I still have this hunch no heads would be turned anyway.

fourteenwings

I was going to comment on that article but forgot.

Anyways I read this recently and I thought it would be of interest (particularly to GMH).

The Subway Is For Transportation
Which means you have to arrest people who smoke fentanyl there

glennmagusharvey

I also think this exposes a key contradiction that leftists need to resolve. Do they care about the provision of high-quality public services? Or is their primary objective to ensure that the coercive force of the state is never used to enforce rules? A lot of people on the left (Freemark included!) seem to think it’s important to foster dense, energy-efficient cities where people take transit and otherwise mingle in shared space. But if you let the transit system go to shit because you don’t think it’s fair to arrest people for smoking fentanyl on it, then people with means won’t ride it, and people with no option but to use the subway will be subjected to disorder and crime and the risk of violence, and will try to figure out how they, too, can escape the system.

Yeah, this ain't a "key contradiction that leftists need to resolve". It's not a condemnation of public transit (or expansion thereof), or lack of policing (or leftists lol). And it's not a problem solvable by simply going heavy-handed with "enforc[ing] rules".

Here's the key question: you can arrest the drug addicts and the homeless (n.b. they may overlap but are not necessarily the same people), but...what happens after that? They don't just disappear. (Well, if you were in charge of the government, you could make them disappear, but you'd have much bigger ethical problems on your hands.)

If you don't send them to jail, then you need some other facilities to house them where you can administer drug rehab programs and mental health help and other resources needed to get people back on their feet. (And you'd also need more housing.) If you send them to jail, then that means you now need to have those resources as part of the prison system. If you do neither of these...well, what are you gonna do, drop them off at the nearest highway underpass?

On the other hand, building more housing directly produces a solution (that works on a longer timescale than simply "remove them from public transit" without thinking of the next step), which would ideally be affordable housing, but even if it isn't it still has the effect of increasing supply and stemming the skyrocketing rise of real estate. (And yes, this means doing away with various crappy land-use/zoning regulations.)

As for getting people the help they need, it's probably better to not use the jails as an out-of-sight-out-of-mind "wastebin" for stuffing any and all "undesirables" but giving people more appropriate and fitting help from other professionals who can coordinate with and support law enforcement officers by providing other expertise so that you're not burdening the police with dealing with every problem under the sun.

fourteenwings

If you don't send them to jail, then you need some other facilities to house them where you can administer drug rehab programs and mental health help and other resources needed to get people back on their feet.

Would you be cool with drug rehab programs and mental health programs done by force? I would be (and am).

it's probably better to not use the jails as an out-of-sight-out-of-mind "wastebin" for stuffing any and all "undesirables"

Not to be a complete jerk but we could just build alternative facilities so the criminal justice system isn't overburdened.

Also, this still avoids the fact that these people do commit crimes and "he's a drug addict/homeless" is a very bad excuse for not putting them in jail.

glennmagusharvey

Would you be cool with drug rehab programs and mental health programs done by force? I would be (and am).

I think there exists a legal mechanism to rule someone incompetent for the purpose of making legal decisions, including ones related to mental health care.

It shouldn't be abused, of course, but that goes without saying.

Not to be a complete jerk but we could just build alternative facilities so the criminal justice system isn't overburdened.

This, yes.

Also, this still avoids the fact that these people do commit crimes and "he's a drug addict/homeless" is a very bad excuse for not putting them in jail.

The thing with that is it raises the question of why we are putting people in jail in the first place? Sure, it exists as a deterrent to the people who aren't in jail, and also as a way to contain certain dedicated criminals who are deemed too dangerous to let roam free, but the motives and motivations of people who shoplift to feed their drug addictions are quite different.

Furthermore, and certainly a very important point: Drug addiction, homelessness, and criminal activity should not be conflated with each other. Individual people may be involved in one or more of these things, but presuming them to overlap, e.g. automatically presuming homeless people are criminals, is what got us into the problems we have today in the first place.

lrdgck

Not to be a complete jerk but we could just build alternative facilities so the criminal justice system isn't overburdened.

This, yes.

I'm wondering if by "alternative facilities" @fourteenwings means "additional prisons".

Stormtroper

I assumed so.

glennmagusharvey

I guess I should specify "alternative facilities" as in facilities that do something other than just be holding pens for criminals, but have resources like addiction rehab staffing.

glennmagusharvey

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/04/the-forgotten-girls-monica-potts-book-excerpt/673581/

content warning: teen pregnancy, teen marriage, and generally depressing stuff

FYI, to get around the paywall, hold Esc immediately after, or even as, you're refreshing the page.

fourteenwings

I'm wondering if by "alternative facilities" @fourteenwings means "additional prisons".

I actually meant asylums.

Well, forced drug-rehab and mental health facilities.

Like what GMH said but with less niceness.

Drug addiction, homelessness, and criminal activity should not be conflated with each other.

I think the first and last things are closely linked, whereas the second is more about either intense mental health or depression-related problems.

Almost everyone goes to an evangelical church,

*silent balk*

One of the worst things about conservatism is the intense belief in Christian values.

Speaking of, it seems rural America has like, a super-intense drug problem that somehow never comes up enough. Maybe because journalists and intelligentsia live in cities, so the city drug problem is on their minds more.

Many of them were also dying from cancer, heart disease, or respiratory diseases like chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and lung cancer

I think diet and smoking rates are also pretty bad when you spend all day making fun of "Avocado Toast Eating Elites".

I actually do think abstinence until you're 18 or so (or like, married even) is generally a good idea, and frankly I am super cool with scaring kids into it, but I'm also a kid who grew up watching all of Degrassi and knowing that contraception was an option and taht it's not super evil (for some reason, I can only remember the one time Liberty had a pregnancy scare because some forms of contraception aren't 100% effective).

Most people won't pay attention, but the author to this piece clearly did, but but also I don't mind if people do things I think are wrong if the extent is "having sexual relations before you're 18" (but like, probably do a good cutoff at 16ish anyways because come on).

At 12, she started sneaking out at night, tagging along with them to house parties.

sam hill on a stick

I feel like there's a dichotomy not being explored here; this Protestant aesthetic that Americans clung onto for a very long time and their inability to actually ever police their children once stuff goes awry (you'd think there would be a convenient coven to send them off to*).

*for some reason, saying this, I was reminded of "pray away the gay" camps

When we got back to her den late that night, I told her that her new friends were sleazy.

Author girl knows what's up (or at least her mother did).

glennmagusharvey

I think diet and smoking rates are also pretty bad when you spend all day making fun of "Avocado Toast Eating Elites".

Aren't avocado and toast reasonably healthy things to eat anyway? lol.

I actually do think abstinence until you're 18 or so (or like, married even) is generally a good idea, and frankly I am super cool with scaring kids into it

Well I mean frankly speaking at some people they're gonna have to start attempting to wrap their head around the fact that budding romantic feelings are to varying extents related to sexuality and thus also related to reproduction and thus also the responsibilities of being a parent. Scaring, perhaps, but it's realistic to get them to think about the concerns.

I'm not so naive as to think they'll be able to wrap their heads around it all -- frankly, I'm not sure adults succeed at this either -- but having the very realistic concern somewhere in their head is probably useful.

Hence, the invention of sex ed. Though abstinence-only sex ed is just, not effective, because it's basically just trying to foist all responsibility onto personal willpower, and I think it's better to teach people to just be more cautious in general rather than to conceptualize this stuff as "resisting temptation" in just one moralistically-ordained direction.

Also, frankly speaking, you're not gonna beat the sex drive out of people, no matter how hard you try, considering that it's literally why the human species continues to exist. Perhaps alternative outlets for one's sex drive might be more useful, and incidentally, the conversation in the Animu thread brings up the notion that it may be preferable for someone to be jacking off to a fictional character than knocking up a real-life person.

fourteenwings

TN Lt. Gov. official Instagram account repeatedly comments on nearly naked photos of 20-year-old gay man

News 2 asked the lieutenant governor’s office for comment. They did not deny the authenticity of the posts.

“Trying to imply something sinister or inappropriate about a great-grandfather’s use of social media says more about the mind of the left-wing operative making the implication than it does about Randy McNally. As anyone in Tennessee politics knows, Lt. Governor McNally is a prolific social media commenter. He takes great pains to view every post he can and frequently posts encouraging things to many of his followers. Does he always use the proper emoji at the proper time? Maybe not. But he enjoys interacting with constituents and Tennesseans of all religions, backgrounds and orientations on social media. He has no intention of stopping.”

lrdgck

Our prezzie had liked a whole lot of butts and feet on Instagram, then once it became known, for some reason he set the account to private.

(Or that's how I remember it, at least. I think they have some sort of private setting. If not, then he must've deleted the account or at least un-liked the pictures.)

glennmagusharvey

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/macomb-county/2023/04/21/warren-mayor-jim-fouts-cant-run-again-michigan-court-of-appeals-says/70138947007/

it's amusing to see a story where a politician is running for an Xth term when the term limit is X-2 terms or fewer

(the actual reason is because the law was changed while he was mayor)

fourteenwings

my guess is that the Barbie franchise basically went "okay, we've spent years building our brand around pandering to silly gender stereotypes...now what?"

I think this is a bad way to think about things. There's an obvious current of stuff where people think "girly=bad" because I guess stereotypes like homemaking or interior design are associated with being intellectually disabled but Barbie worked (and works) well as the sort of character who is associated with the color pink and is also a computer coder (or whatever it is this year).

Even in the 80s, there was Career Girl, who is literally Barbie as a high-powered like... office person, and she's wearing a ridiculous Poofy Sleeve Jacket thing. It's epic.

glennmagusharvey

I think this is a bad way to think about things. There's an obvious current of stuff where people think "girly=bad" because I guess stereotypes like homemaking or interior design are associated with being intellectually disabled but Barbie worked (and works) well as the sort of character who is associated with the color pink and is also a computer coder (or whatever it is this year).

I don't think that's how the association works. I guess I could take being "intellectually disabled" (a weird wording that also seems to bring up even more irrelevant associations with mental disabilities) to mean just "stupid" more generally, which is associated to "girliness" (i.e. being pink and pretty etc.) through the "ditz" stereotype, but all of this is...rather different from homemaking/interior design which is more of a grownup thing.

Anyhow, what I was saying was not "girly=bad", but rather, "Barbie=girly", because they've really gone whole hog into that aesthetic.

glennmagusharvey

https://masto.ai/@lukem/110357636891734725

(transcript of the toot since it doesn't embed)

Content indication:

Plpol, NATO, war, missile incident

The following text is beneath a toggle-show button:

So, to sum up:
- Russian long-range missile falls on Polish territory in December 2022
- search is started but they abandon it due to bad weather
- in April 2023 some civilian randomly finds it
- Polish PM says he didn't know about it until the end of April
- ministry of defence blames the army for not informing him
- president: "no harm was done, nothing exploded, that's all that matters"

God fuckin' dammit, I live in a freakin' wonderland.

lrdgck

You seem not to have missed any of the bigger points.

You know, I was wondering whether or not I should post about it, but I felt like this would be me complaining yet again about excessively local stuff. There's plenty of memes, but all in Polish. One I found the funnier had Putin asking one of his cronies if the Poles are now in fear that a Russian rocket hit them, but the crony replies "they didn't notice". But I don't think it's all that funny in translation, so, well, yeah.

Although, I have seen a joke post claiming that the Prime Minister just announced everyone who felt concerned by the incident will be paid out 500 PLN, and I didn't realize it's supposed to be a joke.

glennmagusharvey

> You seem not to have missed

Thanks, but it's not my toot =P

fourteenwings

Me: "I'm nostalgic for the days when the internet fought over things like Bratz vs. Barbie. Maybe Rainbow High vs. Monster High could give us a revival of those days?"

Twitter: Best I can give you is Donald Trump Heads vs. Ron DeSanctis Stans in "Iowa Bogaloo: There was a Tornado Warning okay????"

glennmagusharvey

> Ron DeSanctis

Y'know, with all the attempts to make an insulting nickname for Ron DeSantis, I'm still surprised no one has been using "Ron DoucheAntics". It's closer in pronunciation to his actual name than any of the multiple variants I've seen, most commonly "Ron DeSanctimonious".

lrdgck

Mystery Airship: Missile Incident 2: Electric Boogaloo

The saga ain't over.

Also, this is the election year, so the Party announces they're raising the monthly payout from 500 to 800. There's something amusing in that one of the most extensive experiments in universal basic income was a vote-buying trick by a bunch of populist rightie crypto-authoritatians.

glennmagusharvey

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/05/28/elon-musk-texas-spacex-boring-bastrop/

An article about Elon Musk that's not about Twitter nor about his questionable political opinions. And it's not really about him per se either. Rather, it's about his companies running afoul of things like environmental and traffic regulations that, it turns out, are there for a reason.

fourteenwings

https://twitter.com/ForgiatoBlow47/status/1661861660351516674

Something dumb is happening.

Though I do not like "Pride Month" stuff, and think it should really all just go away, this is kind of just super odd.

glennmagusharvey

And somehow it's actually worse than just "super odd":

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/23/business/target-lgbtq-merchandise/index.html

Target on Wednesday said it was removing some products that celebrate Pride Month after the company and its employes became the focus of a “volatile” anti-LGBTQ campaign.

The company said threats against employees impacted their sense of safety and well-being, but Target did not specify which products it was removing, the nature of the threats, or where they occurred. Target said it removed from shelves “items that have been at the center of the most significant confrontational behavior.”

https://twitter.com/mattyoung/status/1661172854581346304

BREAKING: Full statement from Target announcing changes to Pride merchandise from stores ahead of June Pride month. Says threats to workers forced the change.

Meanwhile, not like it stopped the threats from coming anyway, e.g. this batch days later: https://kutv.com/news/local/layton-target-evacuated-after-bomb-threats-reported-at-multiple-utah-stores-pride-merchandise-salt-lake-taylorsville-provo-lgbtq

Sidenote: this reminds me of the obnoxious behavior of some nutcases during the height of the pandemic response:

The company told the Wall Street Journal that people have confronted workers in stores, knocked down Pride merchandise displays and put threatening posts on social media with video from inside stores. Some people have thrown Pride items on the floor, Target spokesperson Kayla Castaneda told Reuters.

I remember videos of people going into stores just to do stuff like trash the cloth masks. Jerks.