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General politics thread (was: General U.S. politics thread)

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Comments

  • "you duck spawn, refined creature, you try to be cynical, yokel, but all that comes out of it is that you're a dunce!!!!! you duck plug!"
    All of my ancestors are literally (probably? one can never be too sure) black African guys from the Africa.

    Huh. I was wondering if you were channelling the rage against farm attacks or something. Now I don't have an easy hold to play armchair psychologist on you.
    Unrelatedly; did you guys know that there were actually four planes that got hijacked on 9/11? I feel like I'd heard of the third, which struck a section of the Pentagon, but I'd certainly never heard of the fourth, which crash-landed somewhere whilst going towards the East Coast.

    They even made a movie out of it. I knew of it, but I might've not if not for that one conspiracy theorist I listened to once.
  • edited 2020-06-05 12:07:29
    I guess I've never mentioned it since it's never been relevant
    You did mention your ancestry when asked "what kind of South African" you are.
    That was one of your best posts gck how could you forget.
    Edit: there was also the thing with the post with the two anime girls, one of which had a fried egg on her hair.
    Edit edit:
    Unrelatedly; did you guys know that there were actually four planes that got hijacked on 9/11? I feel like I'd heard of the third, which struck a section of the Pentagon, but I'd certainly never heard of the fourth, which crash-landed somewhere whilst going towards the East Coast.
    Odd that you hadn't heard that, it was super well known (at least inasmuch as anything besides the main incident can be well known at the time I guess) as the one where the passengers knowingly* got themselves killed to avoid having the terrorists crash it elsewhere.
    * At least that's how the story goes.
  • edited 2020-06-05 12:13:02
    "you duck spawn, refined creature, you try to be cynical, yokel, but all that comes out of it is that you're a dunce!!!!! you duck plug!"
    That was, like, seven years ago, and I barely remember what I did yesterday. 'Sides, if you are indeed thinking of that post which I had just searched for, then he explains there he's mixed race. (There seems to be a joke about ripening hiding somewhere in that sentence.)

    edit: can you link me to these posts?
  • edited 2020-06-05 12:15:02
    There is love everywhere, I already know
    Now I don't have an easy hold to play armchair psychologist on you.

    I'll try to be more helpful next time. I really enjoy armchair psychology as an art form. Like DIY, except you lost the instructions from Ikea.
    You did mention your ancestry when asked

    'Twas quite a while ago, so I probably forgot.
    one of which had a fried egg on her hair.

    It's an actual story-revelant hair decoration!


    Of course that I remember.
  • edited 2020-06-06 15:11:37
    * At least that's how the story goes.
    I just double checked and yeah, it's true:
    Beamer told Jefferson that the group was planning to "jump on" the hijackers and fly the plane into the ground before the hijackers' plan could be followed through.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93
  • edited 2020-06-06 05:18:45
    There is love everywhere, I already know
    tGoDb9E.jpg

    Sono toki ni nattatte osoi~n dakara
    Sono toki ni naita tte shiranai~n dakara


    ClariS' Naisho no Hanashi really enriches discussions on U.S. policy...
  • edited 2020-06-06 14:58:23
    I can't tell what that popsicle is made of.
  • "you duck spawn, refined creature, you try to be cynical, yokel, but all that comes out of it is that you're a dunce!!!!! you duck plug!"
    Yeah, to continue the offtop I'm gonna say there's no need to be so sorry over it. Also, it's an interesting tale. Definitely I'd like to hear more of weird 14Wingian family drama one day or the other.
  • There is love everywhere, I already know
    but "black" and "black/zulu" doesn't strike me as a terribly important distinction

    If I know one thing about this sort of stuff it's that people really, really care (and are basically kind of racist about it except you can't be racist about it so ????). When people in the New York Times talk about "tribalism" they probably have literally no idea that some people mean "actual my-grandpa-vs-your-grandpa tribalism".

    I mean, Hotel Rwanda captured people's hearts way back in [that year], but that stuff's not gone. Obviously, it's not that bad, but it's the sort of thing that would send Critical Race Theory professors into anaphylactic shock.
    Perhaps it's time for more fried egg hair girl post scrubbing?

    I'll save that for the other post in IJBMU.

    Also I think ClariS is overused so we need to do something else. Or should we go with ClariS as tradition?

    I think I should probably scrub the stuff about the other guy though. I mean, he'll probably never see it, but I still feel like he'd know.
    Yeah, to continue the offtop I'm gonna say there's no need to be so sorry over it.

    I mean, it's just that I've been on this kick of being very open with you guys lately and I feel like a jerk even if it's over things that happened before I decided this new thing literally probably this 2020.
    Definitely I'd like to hear more of weird 14Wingian family drama one day or the other.

    It's not family drama, but I think I've granted your wish for now in IJBMU.
  • edited 2020-06-05 14:25:18
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    Come to think of it I don't think I've ever thought to ask about fourteenwings's race, and totally forgot about the post Stormtroper mentioned.

    (Not that it really changes my opinion of anything, or has much relevance to our arguments over US policy today. Also I think slaves in the U.S. were more typically descended from people from western parts of Africa? just from convenience for trade routes, I think.)

    Also yeah, by the time two or three planes had crashed people had figured out what was going on and the passengers basically decided to make a noble sacrifice to bring down the fourth one. It crashed in a field in Pennsylvania.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    When people in the New York Times talk about "tribalism" they probably have literally no idea that some people mean "actual my-grandpa-vs-your-grandpa tribalism".
    The term "tribe" is not much used in the United States aside from referring to Native Americans, and the term "tribalism" here basically refers to people deciding who to like/dislike based on in-group/out-of-group designations.
  • edited 2020-06-05 15:36:09
    There is love everywhere, I already know
    Also I think slaves in the U.S. were more typically descended from people from western parts of Africa?

    There was a bustling slave trade run out of Zanzibar (Tanzanian peninsula/island thing) by some Arabic society for quite a long time. They sold theirs mainly I think through Asian/Middle-Eastern and European routes.

    So yeah you're probably right.
    The term "tribe" is not much used in the United States aside from referring to Native Americans, and the term "tribalism" here basically refers to people deciding who to like/dislike based on in-group/out-of-group designations.

    Yeah I didn't mean Americans.
    Uhhh, turns out I made things more awkward than they needed to be.

    You know what? I actually had fun today. I haven't ever gotten the chance to talk about the thing in IJBMU with anybody ever, and it felt good to get it out.
    and I may be saying something that turns out to be culturally insensitive

    I think you guys know me well enough that if somebody claimed something was "culturally insensitive" I would get on my soapbox and shout about cultural relativism and the scourge of modern collectivism until somebody (probably also Stormtroper) was like "uhhhh maybe stop now?".
  • If anybody is curious about what kind of Venezuelan I am, I'm mestizo.
    Also I kind of want to tell people I'm Zulian and make them think I'm from the former Zulu empire.
  • edited 2020-06-05 16:24:36
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    Reading stuff on here... I can't believe that we've all actually changed.
    Unlike you I haven't done (what seems to be) a political 180, though back in high school I was willing to do stuff like be the only person in the debate tourney to argue against the legalization of same-sex marriage, complete with easily-refutable slippery-slope arguments that nowadays-me would easily refute and would frankly tell younger-me to summarily junk and replace with better ones complete with instructions.

    But I did this not because I had any particularly substantive reason for opposing same-sex marriage itself. Rather this was more so because just because basically no one stepped up and said anything during the negatives side of those debates, and if I staked out a negative position for my speech I was basically guaranteed a speaking slot, which of course is how I could even participate in those tourneys at all.

    Back then I did nominally oppose legalization of same-sex marriage, but this was based on "this isn't an issue I care much about, but if you have to ask me, then I think this is how the world should work". That said, even right before the US Supreme Court ruled to legalize SSM, I was still suggesting a "compromise" solution involving renaming everything (including heterosexual marriages) "civil unions".

    And a decade or so later, I was also foot-draggy about trans rights, in a similar way, until after several conversations/arguments (with various internet acquaintances) that convinced me to adjust my worldview to be more accommodating.

    Some people say that people get more conservative as they age, but if anything I've actually gotten more liberal (based on ideological labels in current use) on this realm of issues, on the basis that the position considered more liberal is more able to be part of a more comprehensively applicable understanding of the world, which frankly speaking is IMO a more philosophically (even if not ideologically) conservative way of looking at things anyway.

    That said, now that I have decided on this piece of worldview, fourteenwings, you're encountering my intransigence at changing it back, because I've already thought through this one and found it to be better than my last one.

    Still though these issues are not really my front-burner issues for me, while apparently they are for you.
  • edited 2020-06-06 05:49:05
    There is love everywhere, I already know
    Unlike you I haven't done (what seems to be) a political 180

    I assure you there are posts somewhere around here where I said to our wise tumblr stoner InsanityAddict (I am not trying to slander you in absentia IA but I feel this is basically the best way to put it) that I was not particularly a fan of or a subscriber to the idea of "Queer", or I just outright dismissed it.

    Since we're saying things I might as well just say when I was younger, I basically thought InsanityAddict was right about literally everything. I still might.
    Some people say that people get more conservative as they age

    Have these people met literally any Democrat in office right now?
    is more able to be part of a more comprehensively applicable understanding of the world

    I will let this go because I have four episodes of Penny on M.A.R.S. to get through tonight.
  • edited 2020-06-05 16:28:14
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    Also you bristle at this use of terminology, but this intransigence is an example of why I consider myself a conservative.

    It's not about holding some specific slate of litmus-test views based on current political trends. It's more fundamental than that.
  • It's not about holding some specific slate of litmus-test views based on current political trends. It's more fundamental than that.
    I agree, we should work towards creating a static world, one devoid of changes or actions or events, with no space or time for either sin or punishment, where there can be no future to be afraid of.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
  • There is love everywhere, I already know
    Not to bother you guys, but some edits have been made so could you maybe please also edit accordingly?

    Also, how did I forget; ClariS' Naisho no Hanashi has multiple covers!
  • edited 2020-06-06 05:30:23
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    I noticed a branded popsicle that I have not seen before, and am trying to remember what was there in its place before.

    What other edits should I be aware of?
  • edited 2020-06-06 05:57:26
    There is love everywhere, I already know
    Kirsten Gilibrand is in the building?

    I wanted to discuss the fundamentals of Conservatism, Western culture, and Christianity, but I accidentally tired myself out elsewhere.

    I will say that even as an atheist I do hold a pretty pro-"Christian values" view now. This happened partly because secularism -and it's outgrowth transhumanism- started scaring the heebie jeebies out of me.

    To be clear, transhumanism is not about transgender issues in it's most important developments, that is to say I don't associate one with the other).

    Remember when I said people changed and I of all people wanted to deny it being mostly about politics?
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    Kirsten Gilibrand is in the building?
    oh i see you edited the video link in

    i'm not sure i really have anything to say in reply to that; it's just sorta there

    not that i even had much of a reaction to it
  • There is love everywhere, I already know
    My interpretation would be that whilst Republicans kind of keep sucking up cultural losses, modern Democrats run the full gamut of apologizing for whatever it was they believed yesterday and running as fast as they can in the direction young voters (or just other progressives in general) want them to.

    I know some of these people might have had their minds genuinely changed about things, but I doubt it could be all (and definitely not Kirsten Gilibrand).
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    ...that is a lot more interpretation than I was expecting.
  • There is love everywhere, I already know
    I'd like to preface this with the statement this is a complaint:

    9lxZuZe.png

    These are the top four audiobooks on Amazon right now and I don't like it one bit (for reasons such check complaints on the previous page and the stuff about secularism).
  • edited 2020-06-06 06:42:14
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    My reaction to that image: "well, that's not much of a surprise; these issues are sorta a big thing lately".
  • There is love everywhere, I already know
    I already knew that, but the fact that Robin DiAngelo's masterpiece is worming it's way once again into people's hearts is a bad thing. I mean, aside from the book being outright racist ("White tears are a defense mechanism that prevents the dismantling of white supremacy") it's a guilt trip taken to it's logical extreme; self-flagellation.

    It's the only one I've personally read on this list, but I'm guessing the rest are no better, if not outright worse.

    And for what? So we can re-institute judging people by their skin color rather than the content of their character? I mean, imagine somebody releasing any of these books with "Black" where "White" is. "Black Fragility" would literally break people's minds open as they raced to deride it on social media.

    ---

    Another fun issue; a few weeks ago The Lancet (the much praised, trusted medical journal) published an article that outright called for the removal of Donald Trump from the American presidency.

    A bit after that, the "Donald Trump dangerously puts HCQ into his own body" barrage started. Aside from the whole "Donald Trump did it, so we must hate it forever" thing, there's been speculation that since HCQ costs so little, but other C19 treatment regimes are more... uh... sympathetic to Pharmaceutical Companies' pockets, there's a vested corporate interest. I personally doubt the latter. The former was clearly in full force.

    So, The Lancet published what was basically the back-breaking peer-reviewed study that proved that HCQ was not only ineffective at treating C19, it exacerbated the condition. In addition, this medicine that professionals had been using for so long was bad all round.

    When I first saw it, I was cautious. I recalled very clearly the "Donald Trump should be removed from office!!!.... for public safety reasons, we assure you" article. However, these guys knew what they were doing. The study was peer-reviewed, and even though I'd been hearing positive things about HCQ, maybe it was all wrong.

    Then it turns ou the study was not peer-reviewed, contained all the possible discrepancies it could, and was commissioned by an unknown, untrustworthy company out of some office park in the US. The company was run by a doctor who had previously gotten into trouble on credibility issues, and two of his 6 (not 11, as he'd claimed) employees where a sci-fi writer and an "adult content creator".

    I've always been one to trust medicine, because it's a hard science, there's no messing with it. However, this incident has dinged that trust for me. Very slightly, but it seems blindly trusting medical professionals may not be the path to health.
  • "you duck spawn, refined creature, you try to be cynical, yokel, but all that comes out of it is that you're a dunce!!!!! you duck plug!"
    Overally my stance on Trump is "not my circus, not my monkeys", so I'm kinda laid back. Much the same in regards to rioting. With some minor catches along the way, it makes life much easier.

    This reminds me. Once in a while, somebody calls one or another literary classic racist. Around here, it's usually "Bambo the Little Negro", a children's poem about a little African boy who loves his mother, likes some minor mischief, studies dilligently and is a bit afraid of turning white. This time however, it was (in modern parlance) young adult adventure novel "In Desert and Wilderness". It has a TVT entry, so you can read a bit about the bad there.

    Also: @fourteenwings, what is your stance on the matter of race-as-objectively-real versus race-as-social-construct?
  • edited 2020-06-07 13:32:01
    There is love everywhere, I already know
    Simply put; I think social constructivism is like all critical theory in the humanities. It's a formula of putting how you feel about something before the evidence, and so you'll always find a way to make it true. Mostly by faking it really really hard. I talked about this somewhat in my Unfortunate Implications thread.

    Everybody alive has a race, because of evolution and natural selection and all that jazz, but I want to live in a world where that matters as little as possible.

    Anti-racism sounds like it would be that stance, but it turns out to be the exact opposite, because it was created via social constructivism.

    It's probably also because it came to exist where people were already not all that racist (or really, at all), so you gotta find some windmills to chase, like when somebody doesn't want to comment on stuff is committing violence via their silence.

    Unlike feminism, it never even had a great era (1st wave) or decent era (2nd wave was like a half and half situation since that's when the constructivism/navel-gazing started to permeate it), it just skipped straight ahead to being as terrible as possible.
    "not my circus, not my monkeys"

    In this case, though, actual HCQ studies were pulled across the world based on the findings in the quote unquote Study in The Lancet. I don't know if HCQ works as well as anecdotal evidence seems to prove, but we might never know now, or we might now a little later than we could have.

    I mean though usually you can safely ignore basically 90% of what he says and what those who obsess over him say about him.
  • edited 2020-06-07 16:22:26
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    "HCQ" is hydroxychloroquine, which is a drug that Trump had been pushing for a while now, more than just "a few weeks ago", and as previously mentioned in this thread, he basically got that idea from watching snake oil salesmen. Similarly, criticisms of his making a big deal of it were also from more than just "a few weeks ago".

    If it turns out to be an effective treatment, then that would be luck on his part, and not something he actually did right.
    Aside from the whole "Donald Trump did it, so we must hate it forever" thing
    Don't strawman.

    Also, I'm going to leave it to you to prove the claims you've made here:
    Then it turns ou the study was not peer-reviewed, contained all the possible discrepancies it could, and was commissioned by an unknown, untrustworthy company out of some office park in the US. The company was run by a doctor who had previously gotten into trouble on credibility issues, and two of his 6 (not 11, as he'd claimed) employees where a sci-fi writer and an "adult content creator".

    Also, even if I assume your claims are true, that doesn't make Mr. Trump any better, or more trustworthy, as a POTUS.
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