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Whether or not to practice common courtesy as far as women are concerned.
The classic "hold the door for them" scenario, for example. It's not a catch 22 or anything, but I don't know how else to describe it.
Occasionally, if you actually do hold the door for them, you'll get a "I can open my own door, pig" reaction. Other times, it's "So, chivalry isn't dead."
... what the hell are you supposed to do? Disregard the practice to avoid utterly insulting to the core, anyone that just so happens to be a "strong independent woman"? Or Keep it up because it's just one of those things you do?
(yes, I did read a lot of stupid "like this post" stuff on Facebook, why do you ask?)
Comments
Personally, I mostly just hold the door for anyone who's right behind me.
Yeah, I always hold the door regardless of the gender or age of the person behind me. It's just simpler that way.
I don't consider it a matter of chivalry, personally. More like basic decency.
Also, like half my job is holding doors open for people, so it's kind of ingrained at this point.
Same. I was taken aback by a girl who (i am not shitting you) simply said "fuck you." as if I just slammed her coffee out of her hand.
Miss, has it ever occurred to you that maybe you too were reading too much into it? There's more to the gesture than just "she's a woman."
Are you sure that's why she said "fuck you"?
For that matter, are you sure she was talking to you?
Didn't see a blu-tooth on her, so no, I'm pretty sure it was me she was talking to. Eye contact was made, a reproachful shake of the head and everything.
I dunno, then.
*shru-u-g*
Generally people like that tend to be less "feminist" and more "possessing of a bad attitude, with no real motivation beyond that". I try not to let it bother me.
That.
As for chivalry itself, I'm opposed to it on principle, but I've found that not acting chivalrous in situations where I'm expected to tends to make most girls think I'm a tool. I really don't know what to do about it.
IJBM: Chivalry always been interpreted under the auspice of gender relations.
I always hold the door for people who are behind me regardless of gender.
I do it out of courtesy and if they're offended by it, I apologize and explain that I didn't mean anything by it. - shrug -
Punch them in the face, see how they like your new equality approach.
Seriously, though, does this actually really happen. I've opened doors for people of all genders, ages and shapes, and I've never gotten anyone be visibly offended by it, let alone have such a reaction. And it's not like I live in Canada or Texas or something.
I probably just wouldn't say anything except maybe roll my eyes if it happened. Not worth getting into a whole big thing over.
Both reactions in OP's post are toolbaggy and reek of strawwomans, but since I've met the other end of the spectrum("there should be more guys like you" smelled either of entitlement or a low opinion of men in general), I'm inclined to believe they actually existed.
Best treat dudettes like you'd want to be treated yourself, and in case where it involves gender-specific courtesies, just ask like you don't care either way. No reason to change your manners over rare outliers.
This probably wouldn't have had the same effect if the responses were "lol thank you" and "lol silly boy that's not necessary". But I assure you neither was an exercise in "ANECDOTE THAT SHIT TO THE EXTREEEEEEME, DAWG", IA.
Super Lazuli,
Yeah, I always hold the door regardless of the gender or age of the person behind me. It's just simpler that way.
Not that these types of authorities matter that much or that everybody should follow them, but I think etiquette guides like this one tend to back up your suggestion. Though I am no etiquette expert, it seems to me that the kind of "chivalry" that tends to get promoted these days is often more along the lines of gender-neutral showing respect than doing stuff just because somebody is a man or woman.
While that might speak to what Alex was saying, just because the goals of etiquette are more gender-neutral does not necessarily mean that the ways of showing respect are not gendered I guess.
I've literally never had anyone give me crap for getting the door for them. The problems I get when holding doors are being That One Idiot who ends up holding the door for an entire huge group of people (like, say, an 80-strong marching band on the way to the buses) and mom giving me crap for not getting her car door for her, because she's apparently one of those Chivalry Is Dead types.
In Scotland, if someone's behind you, you hold the door open. If there's a line of people, the next person takes the door from you and so on.
If someone holds the door open FOR you, you're expected to kind of...trot towards it or at least move faster to take it from them.
I've never encountered any of the 'sexist pig' people but back in college there were a few women who responded with 'I guess chilvary isn't dead' leaving me to wonder for half-an-hour if I was being flirted with.
I think it might also be helpful to make sure that when you're holding the door for someone you don't look like you're patronizing them.
Which basically means, act normal, and don't act like they owe you something.
Only idiots behave like that, and especially to complete strangers.