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Finesse Playtest: Combat

24

Comments

  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!

    It's basically one of those design ideas that was in my head when I was writing the rules. Adding clarification for the next version.


    See, this sort of thing is why we're playtesting.


    Anyway, if All Nines is done attacking, it's Nova's turn.

  • edited 2012-10-04 01:30:04
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!

    At the very least, Stamina isn't the right word to be using



    Well, it's not entirely implemented yet, but stamina is also going to decrease from stuff like prolonged fights and climbing. It's basically the resource that knocks you unconscious when you run out as opposed to the one that kills you when you run out. Though after a certain point, negative stamina should be lethal too.

  • If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.

    Yeah, Stamina's not the right word.


    At least, it doesn't make much sense for my character, who is wearing no armour, to take no regular health damage from being hit by a warhammer.


    Anyway, as it would be my attack now:


    I would roll to hit All Nines with my Dagger.


    A Dagger has an extra use before RAP, so I would attack... twice.


    (Rolled: 2d10+9+4-1. Rolls: 5, 4. Total: 17)


    Not sure if I should roll it now or wait and see, but:


    (Rolled: 2d10+9+4-1. Rolls: 6, 10. Total: 24)

  • edited 2012-10-04 01:32:05
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.

    ...


    Man, this dice roller fucked up :(


    The first roll should read 21, and the second roll should read 28.

  • Has friends besides tanks now

    I don't think Stamina should be a damage gauge in the same way that Normal damage is. Maybe it means that there needs to be two gauges of injuries anyway, but . . . well, if I get whacked in the ribs with a hammer and lose my breath, I probably went out of breath as a result of probable broken ribs and possible (and possibly fatal) internal damage, if I was stricken hard enough; the type of damage that would also come from prolonged-but-non-injurious fighting is sort of secondary to the damage that involves me getting broken.

  • edited 2012-10-04 01:35:22
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!

    At least, it doesn't make much sense for my character, who is wearing no armour, to take no regular health damage from being hit by a warhammer.



    Yeah. I think I may need to iron out how warhammers are implemented.


    The basic idea I had in mind when designing them is that they should only do one type of damage, thus making them more lethal. Maybe I should have them deal normal damage to people without armor and stamina damage to people with armor.


    Anyway, I need to sleep now because I have work in the morning.



    the type of damage that would also come from prolonged-but-non-injurious fighting is sort of secondary to the damage that involves me getting broken.



    Yeah, the former would be in much smaller numbers, like one point for every ten rounds or something.

  • edited 2012-10-04 01:37:28
    Has friends besides tanks now

    I need to sleep too, but first, if she's using RAP to attack me, do I use RAP by blocking the second time? Blocking is technically an action, too. That should probably be made explicit; there's less consequence to attacking excessively if the defender is subjected to the same penalty.

  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!

    I need to sleep too, but first, if she's using RAP to attack me, do I use RAP by blocking the second time? Blocking is technically an action, too. That should probably be made explicit; there's less consequence to attacking excessively if the defender is subjected to the same penalty.



    Yes, but it's done to the individual action. So if you parry one and dodge the other, you take no penalty, but if you dodge twice, you take a penalty.

  • If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.

    I can basically tell you how this fight is going to work out, anyway.


    All Nines has an Agility of 8, and a One Handed of 5, but only has an effective Agility of 3. I have an Agility of 9, and a Dodge of 5. This results in All Nines having an effective attack bonus of 8, while I have an effective dodge bonus of 14- meaning that All Nines has to roll at least six higher than me to hit me. So I have a two-thirds chance of dodging his attack entirely, and I am negating at least six points of damage no matter what.


    On the other hand, I have an Agility of 9 and a One Handed of 4, but All Nines has an Endurance of 9 and a Shields of 4, and an effective Agility of 3 and a Dodge of 3.


    If I attack with an Arming Sword, I get a single attack of +13, and if I attack with my Daggers, I get two attacks of +12. The Arming Sword matches poorly against All Nine's Shields, leaving it purely up to our respective die rolls to determine who hits who.


    The Daggers hit only at +12, which initially matches up poorly against All Nine's Shield of +13, but the second attack hits against a Shield of only +11, so I have a roughly 55% chance of missing him with my first attack, and the same of hitting him with my second attack.


    This is all balanced out by All Nines having a HP of 54 and a Stamina of 81, compared to my piss-poor HP of 30 and Stamina of 45.


    It would, essentially, come down to a slugging match as we plink away at each other, with both of us dealing roughly equal damage- me dealing a little more, but not significantly so. All Nines would win in the end, because he has a lot more HP for me to plink away at.

  • Has friends besides tanks now

    Shields also get +4 bonus against One-Handed weapon attacks, so my base roll against either of your attacks is 17 the first time, and 15 the next.


    But with the differences in our attack and defense rolls being so small, it might not matter how my bonuses apply, because my Armor value, from my Full Plate, is 12, so if you beat me by, say, four points and had an NSNN ratio, it would get canceled anyway, because the three N's would be converted to S's, and the four S's that are now there would be canceled. tl;dr: I went for the optimal tank build and mostly focused on making it impossible for you to hurt me. I went for this build because I wanted to see just how difficult it is to hurt someone in Full Plate and a Shield, and it's looking like that will be quite difficult, and I don't know if Clock wanted the balance to be so disparate.


    Anyway, rolls.


    (Rolled: 2d10+17. Rolls: 9, 1. Total: 27)


    (Rolled: 2d10+15. Rolls: 5, 10. Total: 30)

  • If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.

    Oh, yes; I completely forgot about the shielding bonus, and the Stamina damage being negated due to armour.


    Okay, continuing the fight is pointless, as there is next to no chance that my character could actually defeat All Nine's- not unless I rolled about twenty 19's and 20's, and he consistently rolled 4's or 5's, and I somehow managed to get out of the way of most of his attacks.


    could try what I was originally intending to with this character, which was using Deception in combat to give me a bonus to my roll, but even then, I don't think that my character is going to be able to overcome All Nine's damage conversion.


    (Side note: Endurance alone combats damage quite nicely, with an attribute and a skill focused defensively; but it also allows you to equip better armour for less of an Agility penalty, and gives you an increased health pool. A character with a high Endurance is going to easily outstrip a character with a high Agility due to having armour and a massive health pool. If you're going for balance, you may want to look into that.)

  • Has friends besides tanks now

    (Side note: Endurance alone combats damage quite nicely, with an attribute and a skill focused defensively; but it also allows you to equip better armour for less of an Agility penalty, and gives you an increased health pool. A character with a high Endurance is going to easily outstrip a character with a high Agility due to having armour and a massive health pool. If you're going for balance, you may want to look into that.)



    Yeah, that was essentially what I was thinking when I made the character.

  • Has friends besides tanks now

    But I guess now I'm interested in seeing how long it takes for a fight to wrap up; we've established that it's pretty unlikely for Nova to be able to kill me, but if a scenario like this popped up in the middle of a campaign, we'd have to resolve it, and if a fight takes too long, immersion is at risk. The system evidently allows for superhumans, but with the amount of attention being paid to proper weapon-defense interactions, I'd think a fight could be ended more easily by a screw-up, a la Riddle of Steel.

  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    Yeah, I'm pretty clearly going to need to take measures to make one-on-one melee more interesting.
  • edited 2012-10-04 15:33:35
    Has friends besides tanks now

    I'd also be willing to make up another character (hopefully one that isn't overpowered; I was making it a point to do that this time, but that wasn't too fun in the end), if Icalasari or Nova doesn't want to/can't do the next one.

  • Has friends besides tanks now

    Ooh, ooh, ooh. I had an idea that I think is kinda cool!


    Right now, I feel like Strength is a little . . . well, useless. All it does, practically, is let you use better weapons. I don't want to come off as aping D&D, but wonder if it would make sense to add some fraction of your Strength score upon making a successful attack (with a larger fraction for two-handed, of course). This moves combat along more quickly, gives Strength a purpose besides weapon upgrade and efficiency in inefficient fighting styles, and just kinda makes sense from an in-universe standpoint.


    Also, it would really do to decrease the multipliers for Health and Stamina. And maaaaybe mess around with armor penalties, as well as the amount of damage reduction.


    All that would be left is to bring Agility up to speed.

  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!

    Yeah, my two main takeaways from all this:



    • Abilities aren't even vaguely in the neighborhood of balanced.

    • Characters have too much HP/Stamina.


    Also, I should probably tinker with how damage types work a bit.

  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!

    Okay, 1.1 playtest. Let's do this.

  • If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.

    (Rolled: 2d10+7+7. Rolls: 4, 3. Total: 14)

  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!

    Okay, that should be 21. Let's keep in mind that it only adds one modifier from now on :/

  • If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.

    Just trying something.


    (Rolled: 2d10+7+7-7+7. Rolls: 7, 10. Total: 17)

  • If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.

    Didn't even add any there, so it looks like it takes into account one addition and one subtraction.

  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!

    Weird.

  • edited 2012-11-15 22:57:06
    Has friends besides tanks now

    .

  • edited 2012-11-15 22:57:13
    Has friends besides tanks now

    .

  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!

    Nobody has attacked yet. Nova's roll was for initiative.

  • Has friends besides tanks now

    oh


    (Rolled: 2d10+8. Rolls: 6, 9. Total: 23)

  • Has friends besides tanks now

    Well, I'll be damned.

  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!

    You're definitely going first, though you didn't add all of your modifiers to the roll; it's Agility+Perception+2d10, so you'd actually have a 30 there.

  • Has friends besides tanks now

    Forgot that Perception is its own ability score. Well, in that case, HERE's the attack roll.


    (Rolled: 2d10+14. Rolls: 1, 2. Total: 17)

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