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How Do You Deal With People Who Seem to Hold Ridiculous Beliefs?
Some of the Tumblr talk in IJBMer Updates made me curious about what other IJBMers think you should do when you find someone (online or offline) who thinks and/or says something that you believe to be widely inaccurate or maybe even delusional.
I guess one method is to try to convince him or her otherwise. Another would be to avoid talking about those beliefs and try to respect that person despite them. I have heard some people say that certain people are just so set in their ways that trying to persuade them becomes useless and it is better to just walk away from them. That latter approach does not sit well with me, but I suppose it might be more realistic.
I suppose other people just resort to mocking when they encounter those with views that seem ridiculous. What approach do you tend to take?
Comments
I question. It can be interesting, and while I won't sway anyone immediately, it ensures that I come across as friendly and open-minded. If I have criticisms, they're therefore not taken as personal attacks, but queries.
I try to reason with them and persuade them to change their beliefs, but politely enough, since shouting at them and acting outraged never accomplishes anything. If I succeed, wonderful. If they don't seem interested in changing their ways or bullheadedly defend their opinions, no matter how irrational they are, I just leave them be.
Explain to them firmly why they're wrong, and take the offensive and make them feel like the terrible people they are if they're REALLY wrong.
Man, the last time I tried that, a skinhead punched me. :P
So yeah, choose your battles carefully.
Stab them.
^I thought you got into fistfights. Isn't shanking peeps more of an Englishman's way of settling arguments?
Make fun of them, of course. It's tiresome to go into a debate without the time to think about your argument and having an internet full of backup data handy.
Well, if you do choose the route of arguing with them, and you don't have an internet full of backup data handy, don't make assertions that need data to support them. Instead, do one of these:
1. Make assertions that can be supported by simple, intuitive thinking. Feel free to draw upon anecdotes, or reasoning within very limited scope, to do this.
2. Instead of making your own assertions, just question theirs. You don't need proof to question theirs. And you get to put them on the defensive argumentation-wise.
Wanna see examples? Look at climate change deniers. For example:
1a. Electricity from fossil fuels is cheaper than electricity from wind or solar generators. In this era of tight budgets, more costly overhead will just stifle business and economic recovery. That's why renewable energy is bad for the economy.
2. We don't need to disprove the scientific consensus. All you have to do to stifle policy action on the issue is to sow doubt and keep on questioning the findings of scientists.
And all the while I remind myself that they derive their beliefs from a particular upbringing and chain of events that make what they believe perfectly logical. That my own beliefs are no less ridiculous and no less foolish.
Because who knows? They might actually be right.
In the internet, I argue. I try to keep a cool head about it (And sometimes, for better or for worse, fail at it) but I argue because I don't see a point in not questioning it. If you let someone believe that they're right through your (and their) collective silence, then you're simply doing more harm than good. At least, that's how I feel
In real life, though, I normally evade confrontations unless I already know the person.
Generally speaking I try to ignore them because it's very rarely going to result in a constructive dialogue.
Milos, I try to reason with them and persuade them to change their beliefs, but politely enough, since shouting at them and acting outraged never accomplishes anything. If I succeed, wonderful. If they don't seem interested in changing their ways or bullheadedly defend their opinions, no matter how irrational they are, I just leave them be.
That seems like a pretty reasonable approach to take. Do you have any advice about what to do when the person who holds those beliefs is someone hard to avoid (e.g., a family member, a coworker, or a classmate)? Judging based off of what some people say online, having family members who say or believe some way out there stuff seems kind of common for example, and I wonder how people in those situations cope with that.
glennmagusharvey, Make assertions that can be supported by simple, intuitive thinking. Feel free to draw upon anecdotes, or reasoning within very limited scope, to do this.
Both of the points in your first post seem logical to me, but I feel like people can run into some problems when their ideas of "simple, intuitive thinking" differ. Sometimes I think people assume stuff is common sense or flows logically when it really only fits together because of certain background factors that color their perspectives. That being said, I doubt going the other direction and overwhelming people with complexity and jargon stuff would work either.
Kraken, And all the while I remind myself that they derive their beliefs from a particular upbringing and chain of events that make what they believe perfectly logical. That my own beliefs are no less ridiculous and no less foolish.
Because who knows? They might actually be right.
You bring up a good point which I think also gives a reason to not look down on people for their beliefs. Still, I wonder if it is going a bit far to say that your beliefs are just as ridiculous as say the belief that Pres. Obama was born in Kenya or that 9/11 was a U.S. government conspiracy.
Ideally, I would think that we would have some capability of using evidence and such to weigh the legitimacy of certain beliefs over others. Otherwise, I fear that people would be too willing to discard their own views and adopt some of the more problematic and fringe ones like the conspiracies theories mentioned earlier. Plus, if we believe everyone's views to be equally foolish, why bother working to make our dreams a reality?
Just because my beliefs are foolish doesn't mean I won't defend it. Just because I'm a fool doesn't mean I can't be wise.
And just because I might not be right doesn't mean some others are right in turn.
Doubt everything. Question everything, including yourself. Because any absolute, any broad generalization, any certainty will become a terrible, terrible thing.
Sorry, I guess I am having some trouble understanding. I think I am having some trouble understanding how any certainty will become a bad thing when I feel like everyday actions are based on certain assumptions without which we would be pretty paralyzed. I mean, from what I can tell, it would be pretty tough for someone to function in society if say they constantly doubted that reality existed or that their friends, family members, or coworkers are who they say they are.
I definitely agree that keeping an open mind and avoiding arrogance are good goals. I am not sure if I can speak for anyone else, but I know that I still have a lot to learn before I can even begin to claim any kind of authority about knowing stuff. At the same time, I worry a bit that questioning yourself too much may make you too gullible or discourage you from expressing ideas when you have good ones, if that makes any sense.
Doubt instead what you know of the world. Doubt the assumptions that you make. Test what others say.
Because the moment you start thinking "Things are always like this" or "These people are always like that" or "It always happens this way" is the moment you give up, the moment you start hurting yourself, the moment you start hurting others.
Because somewhere in the middle of all extreme polarities is the closest you can come to the truth.
I think it's important to remember the golden mean fallacy here, man.
I do believe that, as a rule of thumb, balance is the best choice, though.
Well, in that case, it just makes debate easier since you know the person well. However, if they are stubborn, never try to push it, since it can make them annoyed at you and make them think that you are a self-righteous prick, so just leave them be and try not to let it impact your relationship. I've discovered that most people hold some beliefs that would be considered questionable - it doesn't excuse them, but it's understandable, since humans are far from perfectly rational beings. If I cut off everyone who professed such beliefs, soon I would have no friends.
Kraken,
Ah, okay, not taking assumptions for granted makes sense to me. I guess I just got a little confused with the philosophical stuff there since that is not exactly my specialty.
Milos,
I've discovered that most people hold some beliefs that would be considered questionable - it doesn't excuse them, but it's understandable, since humans are far from perfectly rational beings. If I cut off everyone who professed such beliefs, soon I would have no friends.
True, I feel like it can occasionally be surprising what beliefs people hold. Cutting off contact right away in response to that might not be the best idea. I guess sometimes people with such questionable views who are isolated take refuge in online communities where everyone shares their views. I suppose it might be better to stay in touch with him or her so that person does not become more deluded.
Do you think there is a line to be drawn though? For example, would you stop associating with someone if that person was pretty adamant about some racist, sexist, or otherwise hateful view (e.g., hatred against people who are gay)?
^My answer to that is yes, because associating with that sort of person with those views regardless shows a degree of acceptance. Which is far more than they deserve, and reflects accordingly on the person doing the accepting.
I dunno, if I see somebody I know professing such views and failing to sway them the first time, I prefer not to bring it up again because I don't like to be disappointed in people. I have several friends who have some absolutely terrible views, but I try to ignore it because, apart from that, they are pretty cool people to hang out with. Instead of them, I prefer to put the blame on society because, honestly, we are a generation that was born during the most brutal war in Europe since WW2, grew up during a time of economic sanctions and political turmoils, saw bombs fall down from the sky on the very city we were born in and still live in a period of uncertainty, hopelessness and disillusionment, so it comes naturally that we'd end up quite messed up, but are we to blame?
Only a couple of years ago I passed through a phase where I was angry at the wrong targets and seriously thought of joining the youth wing of a far-right organization - it wasn't born out of any active malice, but negative emotions like rage, hatred and a sense of hopelessness that I wasn't in control of, and I prefer to think that it is the same for many of my friends. Thankfully, I snapped out of that frame of mind before it was too late, and hope that they will too.
As long as they're not harmful and just stupid, I just passive-aggressively make fun of them until the person in question catches on that I'm being sarcastic.
Wakka-wakka-wakka!!
Milos,
I can kind of understand putting the blame on society for people's views rather than the people themselves. Still, I tend to side with Crimson on that point. I would probably have some problems being buddies with those who actively hated certain groups of people or who were say hardcore truthers. I feel like hearing them talk about stuff like that would just get annoying after awhile and I do think the company you keep matters.
I might be misguided here, but my thinking tends to be that while having an unfortunate background (like the Serbian one you mentioned earlier) gives reasons to believe some messed up things it does not usually give you an excuse to hold those beliefs. Of course, that does not mean I believe that people with such beliefs should be completely abandoned, just that if persuading them does not work, being friends with them becomes a pretty tough proposition.
These questions are difficult though and I definitely do not have all of the answers. Part of this might just come down to how high your standards for friends are.