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^^^ Well that's another reason not to use compound questions, since we don't know the specifics of how the lie is distributed. Like, I assumed you invert all components. You just assumed you invert all components, and then the composite as well. Furthermore, we don't know Dungeons's pattern -- for all we know she could mix it up anywhere in the statement instead of going full-out truth/lie.
What made the two-person one work ("what would the other one say is right") was that you asked a question that -- regardless of who answered it -- got filtered through exactly one lie, so you could just choose the opposite. I'm thinking the approach that needs to be taken here should be similar, and probably involves getting Life to say "I don't know" about what Dungeons would say. But if Dungeons feels like being a bitch, she could say she doesn't know either.
Ok, reading it again (and going through the question you need to ask and all the possible permutations of answers) and looks like the part I forgot is that the question needed to be answered already with the answers told to you, otherwise Dungeon just fucks everything up
:< Should I post the fixed brain teaser or let somebody else go and go hide my shame in the meantime?
...wait, what does that even mean? :S
No, DYRE's answer only inverts the composite (which is what makes sense; that's the answer to the question).
Yeah, but it also makes it very, very complicated.
It's further complicated by the fact that any answer we can be given will necessarily be complicated by the fact that one of the askers could give us either a true answer or a false answer. So, by design, we have a shifting element- any question we ask could have differing results depending on whether the Knight of the Dungeon decides to be truthful or to lie.
That is to say; with only one question, it is unlikely that you will be able to pinpoint the Knight of the Dungeon, as you can only eliminate one potential person at a go.
For example:
"Is the sky blue?"
- Yes
- Yes
- No
Well, we can assume that the third answer is the Knight of Death. But we have two left to eliminate.
Meh. An inversion anywhere in that statement would still be a lie that could dick you over anywhere.
Bee: As in I say the question asked is, "What colour is your hair?" and the blonde one says blonde, the red head says black, and the black haired one says very very very dark grey, then you guys puzzle it out from there
Okay, do the others know that Dungeons is in truth/lie mode?
I don't think so
Okay.
If you did a "what would the lying one say" question that doesn't have a yes/no answer, would they know what random bullshit the liar would come up with?
No
Okay. And two more.
If you ask a question that requires multiple answers -- like, "what color would each of the others say their hair is", would Death lie on both individually or would she consider one lie sufficient to void the statement? And would Dungeons be locked into truth or lie for both or be free to alternate?
I'd say Dungeon would be free to alternate and Death would answer each individually
Okay. These details are helpful, thank you
You're welcome
Not mad that I fucked up there, right?
Man, I've asked riddles before that had bigger holes in them. Don't worry about it
Okay, I can't get a sure answer, but I can at least get better than a 50/50 shot out of Dungeons. Ask:
"What do you think would each of the three of you would say your hair color is?"
And then put earmuffs on all three of them before they answer so they can't hear each other's answers.
First of all, Death would explode. She doesn't know if Dungeons is going to tell the truth or lie, so she can't say she doesn't know because that would be truth. But any other answer could potentially also be truth. Death.exe has encountered a fatal error. Goodbye.
(Or, like, she'd just say something stupid about her own hair and you rule her out anyway, but mine's funnier.)
Life would say her own truthfully, then answer "don't know" for each of the others, because she doesn't know exactly what lie a liar would choose.
Dungeons could potentially emulate this by truthfully answering her own color and saying she doesn't know what any of the others would say (thus lying about Life), but any deviation from that would reveal her as Dungeons. So at least you're hedging your bets a bit.
The ultimate problem with this is that whatever you ask, Dungeons can selectively lie to emulate any discerning effect of Life's answer.
Nope. You would have to remove the 'what do you think' from that question in order to do that.
Fair enough.
It also might make her just loudly shout "I KNOW WHAT SHE'D SAY!" while making shifty eyes without actually telling you because that's the only lie she could definitively make.
Wait...actually, that's the solution. Use Death to break the possibility of Dungeons being an asshole and chameleoning Life. Death can freely lie about Life, but being shifty or BSOD'ing when she gets to Dungeons would definitively give both of them away. Done.
I can't see a flaw in Bee's response, so the answer to the flawed version is now declared to be that (the proper version has it being told that you asked each of them which knight the Blonde one is. Red head would say Blondie is the Knight of Life. Black head says Blondie is death. Blondie calls him/herself Dungeon)
Er... what?
Regarding what's supposedly the actual solution:
If blonde is life, then she'd say as much and the others wouldn't agree with her (or maybe whichever one is dungeon would, but it doesn't matter since you can't count on it).
If blonde is death, then they'd still say they're life, and again the others would disagree (or again, dungeon might agree, but again it doesn't matter either way).
So basically, you could get exactly the same response regardless of which knight is blonde, ergo that question doesn't actually tell you anything useful.
Okay...that would make blond hair Death, black hair Life, and redhead Dungeon (lie)
But that setup could just as easily have produced the responses:
- Black (Life) says blond is Death (true)
- Red (Dungeon) says blond is Death (true)
- Blond (Death) says she's Life (lie)
Which tells the player either Blond is life and Dungeons is lying, or Blond is Death and Dungeons is being truthful, and the player is screwed.
Wait, way back when you said
Did you mean the original riddle itself had you already having asked that question and given its answers a priori and you had to puzzle it out from there? Because that's actually quite reasonable and spits out black hair as Life pretty quickly, but it hinges on Death being the subject of the question and having been given convenient lies by Death and Dungeons.
I'm going at this by trying to find a question to both figure out if very very very very dark hair counts as black and limit the Knights' possibilities as much as, umm, possible from there.
^^ Yep, exactly it
Anyways, yeah, since Bee got it, he gets to choose the next riddle and I go make sure any of the riddles I use in the future are checked several times to keep me from making a mistake again >.<
Dude, again -- this isn't the first riddle thread I've been to since I discovered the Internet, and I've blown one even worse before (it was one of the old Mindtrap ones, and I forgot like half the crucial details. Pretty embarrassing). No hard feelings
(And if you wanted my answer even more concise, their responses as to their own hair color is irrelevant anyway, and you could just ask for their take on the other two -- all you need is Life not knowing the other responses, and Death hanging up on Dungeons if Dungeons tries to be a douche. Which means you don't need the earmuffs either.)
Alright. Back when I was in my middle school years I went on a bit of a magic binge, and I still remember a few of the tricks (the Svengali deck is sitting around somewhere too, but meh). This trick is as follows:
I begin by walking out of the room, stage right.
My assistant asks you to pick any five cards out of a standard 52-card deck. He pockets the rest of the deck and takes your selected cards. He selects one of them and gives it back to you, facedown. He then places the other four cards faceup back on the table, and leaves stage left.
I come back in as he leaves. I examine the four cards left on the table, and then tell you what your facedown card is.
I did not see or hear any of the the onstage exchange while gone. There was no marking or tampering with the deck or cards. I did not speak to my assistant in any way since the beginning of the trick.
Oh and I'm not psychic. That would be less awesome than it sounds.
Did you shuffle the deck at all? :P
One possible (kind of dumb) way:
When the assistant places the cards on the table, he places some perfectly perpendicular/parallel to the edges of the (presumably square) table, and some are tilted slightly (enough that the magician would know it's intentional, but of course not so much that it's obvious what's going on). The pattern of tilted/not tilted would correspond to a binary representation of the card's number (Ace=0001, 9=1001, King=1011, etc.). Since there were five cards selected, at least two of them should share a suit, so the one the assistant gives back to you has to be one that share's a suit with another card that was selected, and then the assistant can just put the card that it shares a suit with on, say, the far right side of this arrangement.
So then the magician can look at the cards placed on the table and immediately see both the number and suit.
^ Shouldn't matter, since the person could presumably pick any 5 cards they want, regardless of where they are in the deck.
Dyre has the right idea. A same-suit card is selected to give back to you, and the other four are put in a line with the first card sharing the rank. The binary thing wasn't what I had in mind, but it is an extension to the trick that could potentially generalize it to a 772-card deck with 193 ranks
As it is a workable solution, you can try to figure out the one I had in mind, or just go ahead and throw your riddle next.
I don't actually have a puzzle/riddle, nor do I really know where I'd find a decent one, so... can I pass? Can someone else come up with one instead?