US Police to use drones in about 90 days

Forzare · 2012-03-04 19:25:53

Yeah, laws like that are the reason the Supreme Court exists.

Ironweaver · 2012-03-04 19:27:57

Well, ain't this wonderful. Pffft, the land of freedom and democracy, my ass.

MillerCross · 2012-03-04 19:28:01

the fact that it was even proposed is still pretty damn bad, I think.

ClockworkUniverse · 2012-03-04 19:29:47

^Proposed? It passed. The Supreme Court doesn't get to step in until someone gets convicted of it and appeals.

RedEyedAbyss · 2012-03-04 19:31:52

Have to agree with the confusion over the gun thing. The USA is already seen as overly gun-obsessed.

Lai · 2012-03-04 19:45:52

Well... this certainly is dreadful. I honestly don't know what to about stuff like this. (Yes, I'm sure I qualify as one of the 'sheep')

Political matters makes me feel worthless.

gentlemanorcus · 2012-03-04 19:47:23

I can see it now.

Drone: PLEASE ASSUME THE POSITION

DonZabu · 2012-03-04 19:58:53

So, which country should I expatriate myself to if I can?

Ironweaver · 2012-03-04 20:00:19

Come to Serbia. We've got grilled meat, slivovitz and effectively have no laws.

MillerCross · 2012-03-04 20:01:05

I really recommend Argentina. They have the best wine.

^Proposed? It passed. The Supreme Court doesn't get to step in until someone gets convicted of it and appeals.

see, us law doesn't make much sense

Lai · 2012-03-04 20:02:38

I'd say I'd like to move to another country, but deep down, I know I'm not going to do it. Damn expenses.

ClockworkUniverse · 2012-03-04 20:03:08

^^See, the way it works is that the Supreme Court is the highest-level court of appeals. There's no actual system in place to prevent lawmakers from writing out any law they want, even if it violates the constitution, but if the case gets appealed to the Supreme Court, they can slap it down.

RedEyedAbyss · 2012-03-04 20:03:33

Not that it matters. All of the Anglophone countries (at least) are going to shit anyway.

Nyktos · 2012-03-04 20:05:30

How's New Zealand doing?

MillerCross · 2012-03-04 20:05:44

I don't think any country is doing fine in terms of introduced legislations, really. All you can do is either run for office yourself or vote for a candidate that hopefully represents similar views to yours.

MadassAlex · 2012-03-04 20:17:11

The Second Amendment is worth shit all right now. Its purpose was less for self-defense and more to provide the general population with a method of fighting their own government if they got pissed off. It was a good thing in its own context, where a civilian revolution would have access to then the most powerful weapons technology in the world (apart from the mighty European longsword, of course), but today it's a joke. The US government has military technology to wipe the floor with any civilian uprising.

This is why they'll never take away guns. They don't need to. Texas Joe's double-barrelled shotgun doesn't mean squat, because Texas Joe has no defense against a fully armed and armoured soldier with an assault rifle. The only way a civilian uprising could work is with the support of the US armed forces.

IanExMachina · 2012-03-04 20:28:19

So, which country should I expatriate myself to if I can?

Any of the Scandinavian ones, super welfare and all that.
(Maybe France, they have pretty decent welfare state too. )

Icalasari · 2012-03-04 20:29:03

^^ Wouldn't a civil war in the US cause other countries to jump in to try to stabilize the situation since the world economy is (stupidly) tied to the US dollar?

CountryPumpkin · 2012-03-04 20:48:23

The Second Amendment is worth shit all right now. Its purpose was less for self-defense and more to provide the general population with a method of fighting their own government if they got pissed off. It was a good thing in its own context, where a civilian revolution would have access to then the most powerful weapons technology in the world (apart from the mighty European longsword, of course), but today it's a joke. The US government has military technology to wipe the floor with any civilian uprising.

This is why they'll never take away guns. They don't need to. Texas Joe's double-barrelled shotgun doesn't mean squat, because Texas Joe has no defense against a fully armed and armoured soldier with an assault rifle. The only way a civilian uprising could work is with the support of the US armed forces.

Although I agree that the government would never do something so stupid as to ban firearms, going all Tom Clancy on us isn't a very likely line of reason.

Yeah, laws like that are the reason the Supreme Court exists.

Funnily enough, the 2nd Amendment only applied to the right for states to form their own militias until the Supreme Court decided in favor of a lie that the NRA had been lobbying for the past twenty years. So one of the founding principles of the country was essentially thrown out in favor of a lobbyist group yelling loud enough and throwing enough money. America really is the best country

ClockworkUniverse · 2012-03-04 21:08:19

Funnily enough, the 2nd Amendment only applied to the right for states to form their own militias until the Supreme Court decided in favor of a lie that the NRA had been lobbying for the past twenty years. So one of the founding principles of the country was essentially thrown out in favor of a lobbyist group yelling loud enough and throwing enough money. America really is the best country

Read the amendment itself. It says the following:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It does not say:

the right of the states to form militias, shall not be infringed.

MillerCross · 2012-03-04 21:10:13

Although I agree that the government would never do something so stupid as to ban firearms, going all Tom Clancy on us isn't a very likely line of reason.

Alex's point is not that the government's going to do such a thing, but that there simply is no point to the second amendment, as the reason behind it is so the people and the government could stand in equal ground, but that's not true anymore.

ClockworkUniverse · 2012-03-04 21:11:04

I think it still serves the purpose of self-defense fine, though yeah, it doesn't really work as a counter to oppression.

MillerCross · 2012-03-04 21:15:57

I still think that it should be regulated or outright forbidden, although it's quite possible that a criminal wouldn't care if weapons were forbidden and would find some way of getting one, either way, so...well, I dunno.

ClockworkUniverse · 2012-03-04 21:17:52

It's worth noting that Switzerland, a country that actually gives its citizens guns, has one of the lowest rates of violent crime in the world.

IanExMachina · 2012-03-04 21:18:17

I still think that it should be regulated or outright forbidden, although it's quite possible that a criminal wouldn't care if weapons were forbidden and would find some way of getting one, either way, so...well, I dunno.

And that is why the UK is overrun with gun crime...

(Although I'd wager it would be harder in the US to actually remove all the guns from criminal hands.)

Edit:
Regarding Switzerland and guns and crime.

The survey gathered data on guns owned by private households in 14 countries: United States, Canada, Australia, France, West Germany, Switzerland, Belgium, Netherlands, England and Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Norway, Finland, and Spain. Switzerland was found to have a low homicide rate and a high suicide rate, together with widespread ownership of the military equipment needed for the country's militia. However, Switzerland has five times as many homicides committed with guns as Great Britain versus only a slightly higher non-gun homicide rate. In addition, automatic weapons can be purchased in Switzerland only under extremely restrictive conditions. Furthermore, the military weapons that are kept in Swiss households are of little use to ordinary criminals, because they are heavy and far too long to be concealed under a coat or in a case. The results indicate a substantial impact of firearms on homicide and suicide.

ClockworkUniverse · 2012-03-04 21:27:53

I can't help but notice the bit that says:

Switzerland was found to have a low homicide rate

Of course more of the homicides being committed are committed with guns, but that doesn't make the overall rate higher than it is. I'd rather have fifty people killed with guns than two people killed with guns and a hundred people killed with knives.

As for suicide...it doesn't seem to mention any logic behind drawing the correlation.

IanExMachina · 2012-03-04 21:38:59

Low homicide but also in line with Great Britain's, yet 5x the amount using guns.

I'd rather have fifty people killed with guns than two people killed with guns and a hundred people killed with knives.

Yes but that isn't what is happening, there is only a slightly higher non-gun homicide rate in comparison, not one that makes up for and is in excess of the gun homicide rate.

A full paper looking in more detail at 'GUN OWNERSHIP, SUICIDE AND HOMICIDE' has this:

Widespread gun ownership has not been found to reduce the likelihood of fatal events committed with other means. Thus, people do not turn to knives and other potentially lethal instruments less often when more guns are available, but more guns usually means more victims of suicide and homicide.

It is an interesting study especially the mention that more guns doesn't equal less other crime, just additional lethality.

ClockworkUniverse · 2012-03-04 21:45:15

I'm not entirely certain I'm convinced, but that does seem worthy of consideration.

I try not to hold strong opinions, FWIW.

IanExMachina · 2012-03-04 21:48:56

I'm sorry for appearing to go all out, I have to say I'm anti-gun (or pro regulation) and from the stuff I read here and during my degree only really solidified my stance. (Of course if suddenly a lot of reputable studies appeared showing the opposite I would have to rethink.)

CountryPumpkin · 2012-03-04 21:57:30

Well of course you're pro-regulation, any intelligent and sane person is going to say they're pro-regulation. Only gun nuts are anti-"howabout we don't sell guns to everybody everywhere all the time." It's like abortion; sure, some people support the right for women to have abortions, but they don't want them to be common; rather, they want them to be as safe as possible.

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US Police to use drones in about 90 days

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