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Seriously, how bad are the States?
I mean, there's the health care and things like that, but I also hear the US has no mandated vacation or sick time and you can be legally fired even if you miss a day due to being in hospital for an emergency, and things like 1st world country meaning you are allied with the states and that the US should actually be a 3rd world country based on quality of life, medicine, etc.
So how much is an exaggeration and how much is true?
So how much is an exaggeration and how much is true?
Comments
I too would love to hear this from anyone from the States. How bad/good is it?
I can't really help with those specific things, seeing as I'm merely a college student who's never held a paying job ever (this is not typical, but I never said I was...) and does not pay much attention to such things. But I can tell you that on the surface not much seems all that bad here. If you asked my family they too would say it's great. Again, my dad is a fairly senior surgeon at my state university's hospital, so he's technically a state employee and things are different for them perhaps...
Ok, I really can't help you. But I can say that I do not feel like I'm living in anything less than a 1st world country.
I've never heard of anything resembling anything in the first post, what the hell is this crap? Since when are these actual stereotypes that go around about the US?
Firing doesn't work any different anywhere you go in the world. A horrible enough boss can dig up any reason they can to let you go if they truly want to, but obviously those are freak situations and normally people get fired because they are terrible workers or break clearly stated policies.
The quality if life in the states is average to above average, as is its overall health.
Icalasari,
I am not necessarily an expert either, but I think part of the issue has to do with values. I feel like Americans are more likely to hold things like personal responsibility, independence, and upward mobility in especially high esteem. From that perspective, the idea of generous mandated vacation time seems odd because people are willing to go without it in order to earn more money/work harder to get ahead.
It is true that there is probably more economic inequality in the U.S., but from what I can tell, some people justify it by saying that it is merit-based and it is better to have the freedom to either go up the social ladder or fail than to be accommodated where you are.
So yeah, I guess whether someone would think what you said is an exaggeration depends on both on their values and political leanings.
Most of the world does not have at-will employment.
A merit based system would make sense if each and every person ever had the same level of culture, knowledge, maturity and insight, and the same connections, otherwise, it takes luck as if it were merit.
As often as not that dirt-digging is because of internal drama and not more valid reasons. Really though, getting laid off because your job got automated, outsourced, or outcompeted by cranking production past healthy levels is the far more frequent problem.
Case in point on that last one, my mother worked in a warehouse for about 12 years. In that time, the production requirements nearly tripled.
^^^What? That's fucked up. What's an honest business supposed to do when a worker has a constantly bad attitude or something else not covered in obvious rules?
Getting fired isn't a constant threat to worry about in American jobs. Most I've had were almost impossible to get fired from without, say, getting caught stealing or sexually harassing people. Usually there's a system where you can only be disciplined after a certain number of serious infractions.
The United States is the only first world country IIRC where non-religious companies can fire people simply for being gay
^^ Well it's still a problem, but relatively speaking it's just kind of a drop in the bucket compared to company fuckery.
^^They aren't allowed to do that at all. There's just not much to stop a homophobic boss from finding some other bullshit reason to fire a gay employee, but that isn't common either.
^^^Er...they definitely can't. Actually, from what I've heard, a lot of companies here are a bit afraid of firing people because they worry that they'll get slapped with some discrimination suit or another.
Heck, I'm not sure religious ones can do that either.
At will employment is a terrible concept, you can get fired for not agreeing with your boss and it's legal, no real care for the employees there.
Not really much social mobility in the US.
^^Funny you should say that.
The problem with economic inequality is not that it exists, but that, in the U.S.'s case, it is a symptom of lack of social mobility.
Even lack of social mobility wouldn't be all that painful if the difference were in luxuries -- unfortunately, pretty much everyone below middle class is utterly screwed on basic subsistence.
IanExMachina,
Interesting, I suppose the belief that there is social mobility in U.S. may kind of fly in the face of the facts then. It still seems like people hold that view though, maybe because mobility used to be greater in the past or because the U.S. never had royalty and nobles and that kind of stuff. Anyway, I will take your word for it on this, since it seems like you know a lot more about it than I do.
People are attracted to these sorts of national myths because they sound empowering. And virtually all national myths leave out the less pleasant truths about the country.
To be honest, most previous social mobility was simply that the country was constantly adding new immigrants at the bottom, pushing most others upward -- a rising tide, as it were.
Oh look, it's someone who lives in the states and has lived in the UK before! Morven should tell us more, I think.
^
I don't know man, Morven is from Saff London so he doesn't really know about the UK
It's not the ninth level of Hell or anything but it's certainly lacking in what many would consider the basics of a 21st-century first world country. For example, there are many who are adamant in not getting an education, health care for all is scoffed at, and infrastructure is decaying because it's more important to talk about whether or nor we should consider women peopFUCK YOU RUSH
Answering these one at a time.
no mandated vacation
It depends on the state and employer. In some states that would be illegal (I think), but in most it's OK to have no vacation, but the employer generally has to tell you if you ask before accepting the offer. The standard private sector job starts with just 2 weeks vacation, but you often get sick leave separate. It is true that Americans take the least vacation time of pretty much any high GDP / capita country, but it's often by choice. In parts of U.S. culture, being a workaholic is an admired trait.
no sick time
Again, it varies. Most companies have some sort of leave or flextime or something. You have to ask or read it in your employment contract.
you can be legally fired even if you miss a day due to being in hospital for an emergency
In some companies, if you don't call in sick, you can be fired for having an unexcused absence. It would be extremely rare for a company to fire anyone because they were so ill even calling in might be an issue.
US should actually be a 3rd world country based on quality of life.
The U.S. has very good quality of life. Even people that are considered poor have things like used cars and flat screen TVs. It isn't an easy country to be poor in, however. Food and gas are expensive. You can get welfare but you have to fill out forms.
US should actually be a 3rd world country based on quality of medicine.
There are a lot of problems with the U.S. health care system as it currently stands. It's horribly expensive. Some hospitals have very long waiting times for patients who aren't critical because they are understaffed. Some hospitals are nearly bankrupt because immigrants and very poor patients aren't able to pay, and sometimes patients are turned away because the manufacturer of a treatment they need decided it wasn't profitable.
But on the whole, health care here is excellent if you can get past the issues. Dictators from other countries come here to get treatment.
Without going into gory detail, health care is a huge political issue here because there are two diametrically opposing points of view on how to fix the many problems. I think as a result, people underestimate the quality of the parts of the system that do work.
----
Indeed, a lot depends on your point of view. If you come here from a country where being poor means starving to death and there are hardly any government benefits, and are able to get a job here immediately (which is admittedly much more difficult the last several years than it used to be), the U.S. may seem like a paradise. On the other hand, if for you 30 - day vacations, universal health care, etc., are a minimum expectation, the U.S. may seem a very unfriendly place.
"immigrants"
I don't see why being an immigrant would mean you can't pay your health insurance...
^I assumed he means illegal immigrants, who can't apply for health insurance without getting deported or can't afford it regardless.
^sorry, yes, I meant people who were here illegally or had come here to escape poverty, and thus couldn't get / afford health insurance. In some cases, people with a legally questionable past or presence here skip out on hospitals after getting treatment for fear of being deported or arrested.
Another thing about insurance is that since they're privately run, they prioritize screwing you for profit over doing their job. My grandmother got screwed out of her Medicare over an absurd amount of technicalities for three years until she collapsed from anemia.
I thought Medicare was the government-run one.
It is, which in hindsight makes the "privately run" bit not entirely unique.