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It's been a long time since I seriously participated in this sort of discussion.
Let's see where this goes.
Comments
Something that nerds, idiots and sci-fi writers like to claim are the cause of all mankind's problems. Ironically these people often form dogmas of their own.
But I'll just counter with a two-strike Zwerchhau combo.
The biggest problem I can find with religions on the whole is when they become insular, disrespectful, and closed-minded. Needless to say though, this is hardly unique to religion, and I've met about as many atheists who were just as bad.
EDIT: I got reminded of that because we read that exact Gospel today in mass :P
"The biggest problem I can find with religions on the whole is when they become insular, disrespectful, and closed-minded. Needless to say though, this is hardly unique to religion, and I've met about as many atheists who were just as bad."
Pretty much. That's why attributing negative acts to faith or a lack thereof is a false, strawman position.
That's true.
I have decided to be cautiously optimistic about this thread.
As for my view on religion: I don't believe in God, but I don't mind if other people do. If it makes someone happy, good on them. But if it's abused, or if the person thinks that religion is the only thing keeping someone from becoming a terrible person, that's when I start having a problem with it.
Personally, this one has no problem with religion as long as it is treated as a subjective thing it is. While this one is irreligious, she has quite a lot of irrational beliefs of her own - why shouldn't other people be allowed the same courtesy?
What this one does have a problem with is expecting other people to behave in accordance with one's religion, or even accept it's premises as true to begin with. Religion is quite fine as a personal thing, but not as a public policy.
And, of course, this one still has no proof that religious person would not kill her if they think their god wishes it. But oh well, guess this one should just learn to live with it.
Anyway, that does not mean that this one hates religion, much less religious people. Everyone deserves respect, and if one's beliefs cause one to mistreat people, then those beliefs - religious or not - are troublesome. So atheists who ridicule theists for no other basis than being theists are not in any way better.
This one is rather...passionate...on the topic of religion, and sincerely hopes that she does not sound disrespectful or offensive.
What this one believes in is a matter between her and God if he/she/it exists. Suffice to say that for this one, the question of whether God exists is useless. She prefers to think that it does, but what does it change? So far this one sees no way of recognising divine being without resorting to circular logic.
That, unfortunately, is true, and yes, it is a problem
I'm also not sure I understand why people willingly hold onto beliefs
they admit are irrational. If I had a belief that I came to conclude was
irrational, I would abandon it.
This one cannot speak for everyone. But for this one, it is because without irrational beliefs she would be left without anything at all. They are...foundation, if you will...upon which more rational constructs stand. For example, quite a lot of this one's current ideals are rooted in her concept of justice, and justified with it - but just how can she justify that getting exactly what one does to others is just i the first place? The same with her idea of fairness, and equality.
Of course, there are probably some people who are able to justify that. But even they would have to use some sort of premise for justification. No matter how many "levels" of justification are there, the bottom one is taken as axiom.
Also, there are some beliefs this one holds simply because she likes it. But these are not "serious" - more a play at belief than anything else.
I have never had the experience of meeting someone who has subscribed to the line of thinking that Religion as a personal thing is something worth imposing onto others.
Neither have I had the experience of meeting the latter either, but there are plenty of people willing to testify of organized religions that try to impose their belief systems onto others, regardless of that person's feelings or beliefs.